Salsa - My New York Adventure

olamalam said:
Pretty objective review of a NY trip
http://toanhoang.com/major-interest/salsa/66-salsa-my-new-york-adventure
Click to expand...

I would like to point out that anyone who says that New York is not better than London in terms of salsa dancing, and in fact is not even as good as London, is living in a bubble. That is *my* objective review.

Besides, the author says that this was his subjective opinion of his experience, so why would you say it is objective? You are doing a disservice to any London dancers who read that and believe there is no reason for them to come to New York, since "London is as good as or better than New York". And if any salsa dancer anywhere in the world chooses not to come to New York when they could have because of what someone else said, that is, in my view, very sad.

Just to offer one "objective" example: live music. Exactly how many Latin band concerts does London have in a year? Oh, about as many as New York in a typical *week*...? :rolleyes: But it doesn't really matter, does it, since most London dancers don't really care about the music anyway.

Also, why would do you post this here when the author himself, who is also a SF member, didn't? To prove what? That your beloved London is on par with New York salsa? Sorry to break it to you, it's not. And you are welcome to never come to New York again and just dance in London instead. You even have so many great teachers in London too, right? :rolleyes: Who needs Eddie, Frankie, Magna, Yamulee, Santo Rico, when you have Leon to teach you how to dance like this:


And at least don't pollute the New York thread with this, make it a new thread so that everyone who has danced in both New York and London can give their review as well.

I'm not saying the author is not entitled to his opinions (and actually I don't have an issue with most of them, but I do have an issue with a few key ones and his conclusion), just that calling his review "objective" is wrong.
 
Sabrosura said:
I would like to point out that anyone who says that New York is not better than London in terms of salsa dancing, and in fact is not even as good as London, is living in a bubble. That is *my* objective review.
Click to expand...

Sound like someone has the hump, olamalam posted this, but it was on my facebook and other means, I am not that frequent of a SF poster.

I think you really missed the point of the whole article and went into super defense mode (I am reading a lot of subtext in your response).

The review was based on my limited time in NYC (as stated in the article) but I will be back for another helping. However, based on my time there this was my impression. I did not say that NYC does not have anything to offer, I think it has loads. I had some amazing dances, some ok dances, and some really bad, but will be true for any scene you go to. This was in the conclusion of the article.

For me every scene has it's properties, Eastern Europe is as technically good as anywhere in the world, Paris has more flavour as a scene then anywhere in the world, Milan has a more sense of dress style then anywhere in the world, London has more partner work than most places. It is about a differences of culture, appreciating differences and experiencing something new. I am sure that you can understand this.

This article isn't there to tell people not to go, as I state that people should go and try for themselves, but I do believe that the mass hysteria around NYC is not called for. The majority of people that know who made the trip to NYC believing that this is Mecca have been bitterly disappointed. I think to put things into perspective and setting expectations correctly will help the majority of London based dancers get a better experience of NYC, this is what we want right?

Now putting a video of a dancer having a dance without a connection and mocking doesn't prove anything, Leon Rose is not a personal friend, but I think he is one of the finest out there, he may not be to your taste, but there is a reason that he continues to travel around the world to teach and perform. Similarly, how about this video from two NY people mentioned above:


Personally, I find this the strangest and most disconnected dance I have seen. But both are great dancers. But to judge and make a mockery of this is not called for.

This is not about winning rounds or a pissing contest, the "my scene is better then yours" tribal (idiotic) aspect of salsa is not an interest to me. I am providing a point of view and educating those that want to and want my opinion. People will read this and think as you do now, there will also be those that respect my opinions will take it to heart. This is the choice of the reader to draw their own conclusions as I clearly stated.

I have a weekend at the end of Jan, and I will pop back to the socials mentioned for a second opinion. So who knows. My opinion might improve, it might get worse, either way, enjoy ;)
 
Sabrosura said:
Salsa with London flavor...
Click to expand...

Oh and one last note, I have had personal messages about this article from people who live in NYC and the surrounding areas with praise about my honesty and their agreement to what is written, and also plenty of those from London who have been and agree.

Just food for thought, there is more out there if you look.
 
toan-hoang said:
Sound like someone has the hump, olamalam posted this, but it was on my facebook and other means, I am not that frequent of a SF poster.

I think you really missed the point of the whole article and went into super defense mode (I am reading a lot of subtext in your response).

The review was based on my limited time in NYC (as stated in the article) but I will be back for another helping. However, based on my time there this was my impression. I did not say that NYC does not have anything to offer, I think it has loads. I had some amazing dances, some ok dances, and some really bad, but will be true for any scene you go to. This was in the conclusion of the article.

For me every scene has it's properties, Eastern Europe is as technically good as anywhere in the world, Paris has more flavour as a scene then anywhere in the world, Milan has a more sense of dress style then anywhere in the world, London has more partner work than most places. It is about a differences of culture, appreciating differences and experiencing something new. I am sure that you can understand this.

This article isn't there to tell people not to go, as I state that people should go and try for themselves, but I do believe that the mass hysteria around NYC is not called for. The majority of people that know who made the trip to NYC believing that this is Mecca have been bitterly disappointed. I think to put things into perspective and setting expectations correctly will help the majority of London based dancers get a better experience of NYC, this is what we want right?

Now putting a video of a dancer having a dance without a connection and mocking doesn't prove anything, Leon Rose is not a personal friend, but I think he is one of the finest out there, he may not be to your taste, but there is a reason that he continues to travel around the world to teach and perform. Similarly, how about this video from two NY people mentioned above:


Personally, I find this the strangest and most disconnected dance I have seen. But both are great dancers. But to judge and make a mockery of this is not called for.

This is not about winning rounds or a pissing contest, the "my scene is better then yours" tribal (idiotic) aspect of salsa is not an interest to me. I am providing a point of view and educating those that want to and want my opinion. People will read this and think as you do now, there will also be those that respect my opinions will take it to heart. This is the choice of the reader to draw their own conclusions as I clearly stated.

I have a weekend at the end of Jan, and I will pop back to the socials mentioned for a second opinion. So who knows. My opinion might improve, it might get worse, either way, enjoy ;)
Click to expand...

I have already discussed my views about your opinion about New York with you in person, so I'm not sure why you are replying here. My response was directed at olamalam's referencing your review as "objective" when you yourself said it was not.

I hold my view that anyone saying London's salsa scene is better than New York's is living on a different planet.

As for your statement that the majority of dancers who come to New York are "bitterly disappointed", it is false--ask any of the SF members who have been to NY; most of them loved it and keep coming back.

Enjoy your January trip.
 
toan-hoang said:
Oh and one last note, I have had personal messages about this article from people who live in NYC and the surrounding areas with praise about my honesty and their agreement to what is written, and also plenty of those from London who have been and agree.
Click to expand...

Good for you, I'm sure you are enjoying the "approval". You don't care about my opinion anyway, so I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. I've said what I had to say and you have as well.
 
Out of curiosity, where exactly in New York did you (toan-hoang) frequent "Salsa" at? If it was strictly at socials or places like club Cache then I would agree with the thought of it as being disappointing or unMecca-like...

Richie
 
Richie Blondet said:
Out of curiosity, where exactly in New York did you (toan-hoang) frequent "Salsa" at? If it was strictly at socials or places like club Cache then I would agree with the thought of it as being disappointing or unMecca-like...

Richie
Click to expand...

Socials, Cache and an Anthony Santos bachata/merengue concert I took him to at LQ (all latinos there)--I hosted him for the first weekend. He didn't go to Taino (he was only in NY during the weekend).
 
Really? Yowzers.

Maybe I should read the article as the answer might be there, but what scene does he consider to have a higher standard of "Salsa" culture? You're saying he feels London does?

Sabrosura, as you already know, I'm no fan of the "social" or the following venues (Cache, Taj & Iguana) because, for me, its like walking into a Congreso. Which I also am no fan of. Mind you, I have many friends in the UK and I'm aware of there being a scene there. But they are more of the music loving type and have professed the scene to be dominated by the dance zombies that are widely visible in most other scenes around the world. One thing NYC has in common with scenes in latin america (which scenes in europe, asia and even cities across the USA don't have) is a segment that is distinct from the strictly "dance" oriented culture. Whether one thinks its a good thing or not, the point is that we have options in NYC. I don't HAVE to like Taj, Cache, or frequent the socials to get my Salsa fix. There is so much more going on throughout the tri-state area. While I don't live in the UK, my pals who reside there would opt to travel and experience the culture here (in NYC) than they would in London, for their own reasons. Whatever it is specifically they're into, London does not offer it as much perhaps. I guess it would all depend on what one is into. If you don't really care about seeing a mural of Celia Cruz on a wall or hanging out at what's called a 'casita' while drinking beers [for free], while local folks are playing percussion [including elderly women playing clave sticks] accompanying the radio or CD or going to Central Park every Sunday to experience 'Rumba' and later hitting a social club in spanish harlem to experience a 'Bembe', then I don't think it would be air to make an assessment of what a mecca is and what isn't. Esepcially if all you do is frequent a specific segment of it. In NYC, you can rub elbows with the recording artists everyone dances to. There's a luncheonette where one can always find Frankie Vazquez in when he's in town. A restaurant where you'll always see Chocolate Armenteros holding court and sipping his wine. Live music every night of the week in any part of the city. Dancing every single night of the week in any and every part of the city. We have both commercial and public radio broadcasting "Salsa" through the airwaves. We have un-official holiday-like events that are celebrated which garner large audienes annually and without having to resort to mainstream promotion. We have streets named after "Salseros." And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I realize none of this signifies anything for a lot of people who dance Salsa because that's all they care about. I would recommend for out of towners to travel to NYC in the summer time. That's when things really kick in to overdrive. That's when the argument of NYC being a Salsa Mecca really holds weight...
 
even though toan might think that its his subjective opinions, when i read it, i might think that it was quite objective actually. he might still disagree with me. thats what i think.
 
Richie Blondet said:
Out of curiosity, where exactly in New York did you (toan-hoang) frequent "Salsa" at? If it was strictly at socials or places like club Cache then I would agree with the thought of it as being disappointing or unMecca-like...

Richie
Click to expand...

Hi Richie, the article states the social that I went so :) as well as my opinions.
 
i should confess that i posted that article myself because i wanted to collect all likes :P

btw, london rocks. no offense.
 
Richie Blondet said:
I guess it would all depend on what one is into. If you don't really care about seeing a mural of Celia Cruz on a wall or hanging out at what's called a 'casita' while drinking beers [for free], while local folks are playing percussion [including elderly women playing clave sticks]
Click to expand...

I think you will enjoy this story from one of my nights of dancing this week--I was at Solas (a downtown bar that has salsa dancing on Wednesdays) and there was a middle-aged (Latina) woman in attendance playing her clave when she was not dancing. And her playing was perfect. :) It's the only time I've ever seen anyone with a clave there though, it was a nice surprise. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top