Salsa - My New York Adventure

Discussion in 'Member Reviews' started by olamalam, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. toan-hoang

    toan-hoang Descarga

    Actually, I think the camera doesn't catch he essence of the dance, this is why seeing something in real life always makes more of an impact.

    I don't think that this is a good connection between the two dancers, I have seen Leon dance and have been amazed.
  2. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Keep insisting, I promise that experiencing his "lead" will be quite a revelation...
    DJ Yuca likes this.
  3. toan-hoang

    toan-hoang Descarga


    How does one judge the ultimate dance spot? The number of good dancers? the number of big nights? the largest night? there is no real way to judge these things...

    Therefore, my conclusion is the ultimate dance spot is depends on the dancer, what they are used to, and what they are looking for. The statement that home is where the heart is. For me, NYC was not the ultimate spot and I do enjoy dancing in London infinitely more than NYC, leaps and bounds more.

    Now, take for consideration a dancer in a small local club with two/three dancers. For him this may be the ultimate spot to dance. But the key is to know what you want and search for that, as opposed to have these myths present.

    Wouldn't you agree?
    Flying Donkey and DJ Ara like this.
  4. toan-hoang

    toan-hoang Descarga

    Some guys don't dance with guys, I will get him one day... but like all people there would be those that dislike his lead and those that will be in love with it.
  5. DJ Ara

    DJ Ara Clave Commander

    That is how I usually dance cha cha.
  6. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe're not dancing cha-cha then. Sorry, Ara, but dancing salsa to cha-cha music is not "authentic"! What if teachers taught students to dance salsa steps to cha-cha music instead of cha-cha steps and the students then kept thinking that is indeed cha-cha dancing? Then when I would tell one of them that is not cha-cha, it's salsa, s/he would say, no, it's cha-cha, that's how my teacher taught me. Then you would have a whole bunch of fake cha-cha dancers.
    bas, SnowDancer and premier like this.
  7. DJ Ara

    DJ Ara Clave Commander

    I felt a sense of embarassment just watching that....LOL!

    This is exactly what I, Richie, Terence and others moan about. There is no excuse for that kind of "performance". I know beginners who are musically more connected than that.

    Anyway, I hope the woman recovered without sufferingn any permanent damage!
    Sabrosura likes this.
  8. DJ Ara

    DJ Ara Clave Commander

    The difference is that I don't claim to be a cha cha dancer!

    If I have to dance it, then I will do so with "slow motion" salsa. I do the same with the Son. I did not promote this as a genuine cha-cha dancing and nor did I say that it should be taught that way by teachers. It is just that my prefence is dancing "salsa" and if I have to dance any other dance, I just do by best. The same goes for cumbia, vallenato, etc. :)
  9. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    I understand, but I just had to say it. :p
    DJ Ara likes this.
  10. MMaatttt

    MMaatttt Shine Officer

    Really? I've seen documentaries where children are filmed through the chain fence of an internment camp only to later find out that it was just an old bit of fence and anyone could walk round it. Don't trust trust it just because you see it.
    Salsa Bear likes this.
  11. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    UFO's, however, are real...

    bas likes this.
  12. DJ Ara

    DJ Ara Clave Commander

    I think this phenomenon has more to do with one eyed man having success in the land of the blind. In my humble opinion, the proof of the pudding is in a so called "expert's" social dancing. That is where it is easiest to identify one's love for the music, and musical connection, not to mention sabor.

    Furthermore, most salsa show dancing in the international scene can be performed by any professional cabaret or career dancer. Get those same dancers in a dance floor in a salsa club, then you will know that they are not salseros, because the ones amongst them that don't actually love and understand salsa, will look exactly as the the video we are discussing.

    Again, bad show dancing or performance is just that. In a social setting a good dancer has no excuse for that kind of train wreck.

    It is ironic that while NYC and London may suffer from the dance cluelessness syndrom, both of them have a vibrant Latino salsa scene. New York has the clubs frequented by Puerto Ricans (and I assume other Latinos) and London has the Colombian ones. It is ironic that many non Latino salsa dancers who travel to NYC do not even contemplate going to Latin clubs to dance to Latin music. The same for people who visit London from NYC.

    So, both cities have the same problems, but both cities offer the real deal, while New York also has a permanent place in the history of salsa and a very large Latino (mainly PR) community, where according to what I have read here people can go to the real boricua salsa clubs. Then there was the club that Sabrosura posted in her "Sabor" thread. Then there is New York's enviable number of salsa orchestras.

    So, there are places, for people to go and actually learn something - dancing, music and the cultural angle. I have not been to New York, but I have DJ-ed and promoted salsa clubs in London on and off for 15 years.

    Anyway, I just find it ironic that in an international salsa scene with so many problems (also reflected in the "salsa" dancing video we are discussing) so few people contemplate frequenting real Latin clubs where salsa is danced, to build at least a partial understanding of the musical genre they are dealing with. Many seem to travel to different countries and dance with the people from the same congress "salsa" culture and then make critics and comparisons within this very limited paradigm, without actually taking account the REAL Latino venues for salsa dancing!

    In my humble opinion, it is best to look outside the box. ;)
  13. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Ara, for your information, New York does not suffer from any salsa cluelessness. I don't know where you got that one from.

    With regard to the Frankie/Magna video that Toan posted, it has already been discussed and analyzed on another thread soon after the video was posted. I will not discuss it but let's be clear, this was a case of two people's very different dance styles colliding, hence the disconnection, which can happen to any of us--there are dancers with whom you simply don't connect. Both Frankie and Magna are great dancers and both are very musical. So I *hope* you are not trying to say the opposite about them because you would be very wrong in that assumption. (Also--you are misquoting, it was toan-hoang and not polakito who you are quoting.)

    Also, Toan is being somewhat disingenuous by posting this video in the post he addressed to me, because the two of us had already discussed that dance in person a while ago; and I do not recall him being so negative about it, I was the one who pointed out how disconnected that dance was. So I do not appreciate you posting this as your "example", Toan--this is called "being a smart***" (excuse my language, but that is the appropriate word for this situation).
  14. Salsa Bear

    Salsa Bear Sabor Ambassador

    Well, if you're a great dancer and you let people videotape your performances and put them on YouTube, you're going to get judged. However, one might diplomatically say that dance is an ongoing experiment, and this is simply one experiment that didn't work out.

    Just goes to show that even the best dancers may have bad nights, or partners they just can't connect with.

    However, this is not the strangest salsa dance I've ever seen. That honor goes to a performance by a crew from Seattle. To be brutally honest, it reminded me of the night I watched a bunch of drunk sailors hamming it up in a bar. Seriously - the resemblance was astonishing. Sheez.
  15. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

  16. DJ Ara

    DJ Ara Clave Commander

    Please don't misunderstand. New York is a core salsa destination and it is in my list of places to visit for salsa. I was just talking about the pattern monkey syndrom that most of the world, including NYC is suffering from a syndrom which Richie himself has referred to and it seems he avoids his local pattern monkey clubs like the plague!

    Of course, I also used the club you posted in your "sabor" thread as an example of what people should see as positive about NYC. Then I mentioned the Latino clubs, keeping in mind what Richie had said about clubs in Harlem.

    All of this means that I am on your side! :)

    At the end of the day, the best references for any Latin dancing and cultural immersion in a city like NY are going to be the Latino clubs and the same fact holds somewhat true for London and any other city with large Latino communities from core salsa countries.

    Hey, I did not even criticize that video. It was a case of apples and oranges. Firstly, I consider FM a good dancer. Also, it is a case of apples and oranges. The London video was social dancing. The FM video was some kind of a performance. Sometimes performances can go wrong for a number of reasons, but when a "professional" is social dancing, then only one thing can cause a train wreck and that is musical disconnection. On a "professional" level, musical disconnection is due to the "professional" not having a clue about the salsa music and less of a feel for it!

    This is absolutely inexcusable!!!!!

    Nope, I did not criticise them. You have convinced me some time ago that FM is has "it". :)

    I was posting to Polakito before posting here and I forgot to repaste with Toan's name and now it is too late, because it has been over half an hour! :(

    Anyway, thanks for letting me know. Perhaps the moderators can change the names?

    Again. I have no problem with the video. Performance dancing is just that. Get the choreography wrong and you will ruin things. Have a bad day and you will ruin the choreography, etc.

    However, social dancing is a different story. It is a lot easier to just dance without doing continueous and musically irrelevant patterns. When someone makes all that effort then it shows that they have no idea. I reserve my judgment of most of the professionals based on their social dancing 'performance', not on their official ones. Of course, that is not so easy either because the presence of the camera influences the results, as I have also mentioned before.
  17. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Got it, but for the record, Richie is not a dancer, as he himself has said a few times. That doesn't diminish his knowledge about the local scene, but to me there is great dancing to be had at most of the "salsa scene" socials and clubs in NY (in addition to the PR ones). Richie and I agree to disagree on this matter. :)
  18. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    No, and I still think your point is ambiguous. I think most people would not consider home to be the ultimate dance location purely because it's their home. If you lived somewhere where you were the only instructor, and you only had 2 students, would you still feel the same? If for some reason you had to move to NY, would that mean that once you were settled there, you would then prefer NY to London?

    It's not that I have an allegiance to either London or NY, it's just that I'm trying to understand what you are saying. Do you prefer London to NY solely because London is where you live? Or do you also think the London scene is better than NY's (for your personal tastes), even after disregarding the fact that you prefer to dance where you live?

    Bear in mind, many UK dancers live somewhere where the scene is quiet/small, so the home is where the heart is scenario is often unapplicable.
  19. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    I had a feeling you'd like that one!
    Sabrosura and DJ Ara like this.
  20. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    There are plenty of vids of good dancers where the quality of the dance is apparent.

    However it would be unfair to judge someone on their worst film. What's a better vid of LR social dancing?

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