What kills salsa

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by Burritos, Jul 3, 2015.

  1. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    No, that is fine. It is the statement that "9 out of 10 families on the island who don't actively engage in venturing out to social dance or view dance as a craft to develop and hone" but reading the comment again am trying to understand if you actually mean that "9/10 of society" don't engage or that "9/10 of those who don't engage" in which case my question would be which percentage of the Cuban society do they represent?
     
    Richie Blondet likes this.
  2. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    You don't consider boleros to be part of Afro Cuban music? I agree with the rest of the above.

    I'd say the lack of boleros is a shame, but otoh I think boleros have never done in salsa as well as they were done in the mambo era. Maybe they work best with a big band?
     
    Richie Blondet likes this.
  3. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    :rolleyes:
     
  4. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    In retrospect my comment is probably redundant, however it wasn't meant to be. (Boleros are a part of Afro Cuban music but I don't think Richie intended to suggest otherwise.)
     
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  5. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    My statemebt is revolved around those who don't engage in said activity. They just happen to be a majority overall on the island. No different from any other culture anyplace else.
     
  6. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    I was referring to Puertoricans in Puerto Rico. Unless I'm mistaken the discussuon on the post I replied to seemed to be around Puerto Rico and Puerto Ricans (Tito Puente and Anibal Vazquez).
     
  7. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    I sure do. However its a genre that was largely developed outside of Cuba as much as within. Nevertheless, I still consider it a genre of Cuban Popular Music. Its one of several dance genres, Cuban and otherwise, that the modern Salsa orchestra today omits from its repertoire...

    It's a matter of opinion but the era you specify was certainly a role model, you know? During Fania's hey day, they recorded Cheo, Pete Conde, Ismael Miranda, LaVoe, Adalberto, Santitos Colon, Celia, Ismael Rivera, Vitin Aviles, Chivirico Davila, Jimmy Sabater, Willie Torres, Hector Casanova, and I'm sure many others, interpreting boleros. Ismael Quintana, Graciela and Lalo Rodriguez recorded boleros for Coco records. A lot of them were pretty awesome. They also performed them live.

    IMHO it's not the era, or the type of orchestration. Its whether or not you have the horses, both in the musical personnel and in your vocalist, to pull it off. Unfortunately there is a small circle today who could pull it off righteously.

    Another reason that genre isn't pursued in any great manner compared to yesteryear is that the contemporary Salsa audience doesn't want it. Probably for the same reason yiy dob't see Paso doble or Danzon in any nightclub or dance social. If we really want to talk about how dance instruction, conpetition and self-aggrandizement on the dance floor killed anything, look no further than the Bolero. Not just the musical expression and dance, but an entire element of social activity in nightlife dance culture was kicked to the curb in favor of practicing dance moves with strangers, honing one's technical prowess, being "seen" among the community within the dance cliques who are normally on hand, etc., over seeing an attractive person at a public space and potentially breaking the ice by inviting them to a slow dance.

    Bachata has pretty much filled in the gap (No pun intended) but in a much more physically intrusive and potentially uninviting manner.

    The DJ is the same as the band. Dancers don't want it. They don't play it.
     
    Smejmoon, matty, Joco and 3 others like this.
  8. elanimal

    elanimal Tumbao

    Thank you for your post.

    Can salsa dancing, as it is known today, continue to thrive without new music being produced? Will we always just be dancing to Fania and whatever other dusty LPs DJs scavenge around the world?
     
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  9. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    I'm more of an oldies guy but there are decent new tracks produced, albeit not (imo at least) in anywhere like the quantities they were back in the day. Checkout the Best of 2016 thread and there's at least 2 tunes on it that imo are absolute party classics.

    However most DJs who play real salsa do play a lot of oldies (probably the majority of their tunes) it's true.
     
    Richie Blondet and elanimal like this.
  10. SnowDancer

    SnowDancer Clave Commander

    Without getting involved in the previous several pages, I have an observation about what DOESN'T kill salsa.

    A lot of the conversation focuses on the studio-trained dancers vs the 'natural', or the 'let's-just-have-fun' crowd. I think a vibrant salsa scene will have both of these, and constant stress between them. And this is a good thing! If it's all studio-trained and high-level, it's very hard for new people to break in. The tango scene in my city is like this: There's excellent instruction, but it's very hard for new people to enjoy themselves social dancing.

    On the other hand, an all-party crowd can be difficult for those of us who aren't in the 20-something-and-hot demographic. And people don't stick around for long periods, because the low level of dancing gets boring.

    When you have a mix, it gives people a chance to cross over, and keeps things interesting. People who just want to have fun will try a salsa club, and some will get interested in learning the dance after seeing some of the studio-trained people. And the higher-level dancers get to dance with a greater variety of partners than they would in an in-bred studio scene.
     
  11. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    I think a lot of us would agree with you and that is why Inalso agree with those who are asking to lower the entry barrier not just for leads but also follows. For me this lowering the barriers revolves around the basis of the dance, sending directional aspects like linearity to a higher, more performance oriented, level.
     
  12. Nuyorican

    Nuyorican Son Montuno

    They don’t feel compelled to take classes. Just not interested. The main reason is cost. Their parents are more concerned with keeping the lights on as opposed to paying money for my cousins to learn how to dance.

    Outside of the culture, it’s a different dance (influenced by other dances – Hustle, Swing, etc.) And in order to dance it, one must take classes or learn from someone who takes classes.

    Puerto Ricans have been going back and forth from the island from even before 1917. It was after the Jones-Shafroth Act we started to migrate in larger numbers. So of course there were influences from “outsiders”. On another note, Nuyorican’s are considered outsiders to a lot of the people on the island.

    The word Nuyorican began as a slur against mainland born Puerto Ricans.

    There is no pressure as I stated above as they are not interested. Classes cost money. And even if they could afford classes, again – most are not interested. The idea of going to a school to learn to dance is a foreign concept to them. Reggaeton is much easier. Classes aren’t necessary. Also, most young people I have spoken to feel the same way I felt growing up with Salsa music (not today though).

    It was our parent’s music.


    Oh, and give my regards to your wife. Really enjoyed talking with you two at the SF dinner.:)
     
  13. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    I don't have any wife I known about :)
     
  14. Nuyorican

    Nuyorican Son Montuno

    oops.

    Let me rephrase.

    Give my regards to your lady friend?
     
    MAMBO_CEC likes this.
  15. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Sure :) How have you been? Going out dancing much ?

    BTW thanks for the detailed reply. I think Richie's posts overtook what we were discussing.
     
  16. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    Absolutely. It's been this way from the very start. A song is created, makes an impact, and everyone re-interprets or re-records it. That's a consistent theme during the 20th century. It doesn't take "new" music to make anyone dance. Music is music. Whether produced in 1947 or 2017, if the rhythms capture your attention, and the melodies are attractive, you're going to physically respond in some fashion. Dancing has never needed the music industry to thrive. It just happened to co-exist simultaneously throughout the brunt of the last century but today in the 21st century, the music industry has completely shifted to becoming something else altogether. "Salsa," as we know it, did not catch on or move in the direction that popular music (Country, Rap, Rock, commercial Pop) did because there wasn't a diverse or competitive corporate element that was invested in it. Not just by money but by truly being vested in a cultural sense. The way some companies are devoted to Jazz, Blues or other styles not deemed "popular."

    What we identify as Salsa music has not been a mainstream 'popular' music since the early 1950s. Since then its been independently run by a variety of companies. All of whom ran its course. The consumer market for it just can't compete with other popular music. Its always been less than. Despite that, the dance industry continues to flourish and is growing. Ask a dance instructor if they're concerned about "new" music being produced. They'll play the same song over and over again if they have to. It's not about whether a song becomes stale. The focus is on dancing. Do the dance moves become stale.

    DJ Yuca pointed out there being some great recent songs that can be construed as all around favorites. It really all depends on a DJ. I know one guy who only specifically plays "new" or as in latest releases. Simply because there's less DJ's doing this than there are those exclusively playing 1960s and '70s music. But, again, no matter what happens to the overall output of music, there will always be people dancing to this music. Most do not care as to when music was released. They simply have to recognize it and take it from there.
     
    Offbeat, Smejmoon, wol and 2 others like this.
  17. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    I'm curious where do you go out dancing that you don't hear newly produced salsa music? There are no DJs that play records from current bands?
     
  18. elanimal

    elanimal Tumbao

    Boston. There's only one DJ who prefers playing 'modern' salsa, otherwise the rest prefer 80s and older.
     
  19. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    What about playing a mixture? That way the DJ can choose the best of all eras, including the present day.
     
    terence likes this.
  20. somberrareo

    somberrareo Changui

    brilliant answer
     

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