What kills salsa

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by Burritos, Jul 3, 2015.

  1. khabibul35

    khabibul35 Tumbao

    Yeah, this also might have some overlap with performance-ization of salsa as well. Acrobatics and the thrill of performing supposedly add allure to the dance and draw students in (which is probably true) but at the same time, that kind of dancing is decidedly not social and may prevent people who see this and thinking "hey, I could do that, let me give it a shot" in the way that a more social dance would.

    In other words, salsa has become a professionalized hobby. It's good for the professionals, but probably not so good for the dance as whole.
     
  2. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    I don't know what planet you are living on, but, it's not remotely close to reality. Here and the States, beginners classes are vibrant , and if other " teachers ?" emit important info, in my experience, that's generally due to a lack of knowledge .

    The reasons you state, are due to the current level of dance, which is mostly substandard.

    I know, the majority ( including teachers ) don't give a damn, and that's their loss !!.

    PS.. Old fashioned music ???.. which of what I quoted, is "old " fashioned ?.. ALL are in vogue...
     
  3. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    It's not my opinion (except that it is indeed music composed decades ago), I just wanted to illustrate how people that attend classes think - in my venue again (I'm tired of repeating it, but otherwise there are quickly some misunderstandings that I mean it's like this on the whole planet or even universe)
     
  4. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    So do you believe that, many / if not most, of the new bands releases in the past year for ex. are NOT new ?.. sure, some covers are done, but there are many songs that are original .

    And, How on earth do new students know old from new? if ,that were the case ?.

    Son for the prime x. is the very foundation of the genre and there are many recordings that have Son passages ( same with Cumbia ) and yet, as I have stated in the past, the vast majority of dancers and TEACHERS continue to dance exactly the same tired sequences ( shines apart ) .

    It's a pity they don't reflect the same, in the musical changes of style and rhythm, that occur within some songs.. But, I guess ,you can't dance what ya don't know !!

    Ironically, one could make an argument that, many genres rely on old " standards " and that, has not deterred new students from attending classes .
     
  5. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Terence, my point was on what masses think. Of course that there is new salsa music, but it sounds similar like the old salsa music

    There was an article about similar thing happening with kizomba, they don't dance it much anymore in Angola (so stated the article) because it's a music of their parents, although there are many albums from last 2 years. And isn't it similar with casino in Cuba, yougsters are dancing reggaeton etc ... Even BR competitors are dancing to pop trash remixed to BR rhythms, nobody wants to dance to Ross Mitchell type of music ... but you will likely hear some kizomba / ghetto zouk music in samba heats ...
     
  6. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Normally I wouldn't respond with a rejoinder, but since I have too much time on my hand and need some fun, here we go :)

    You are welcome to my scene and other similar places where there are people who think they can learn salsa by themselves. They have indeed learnt it by themselves and going out for years. Some become decent after a time, the others are pain to dance with. At least when someone goes and learns it properly, they are less likely to be pain to dance with and will pick up dancing faster. That is the case with any dance form.

    There is big difference between solo dancing and partner dancing. In solo dancing no one is likely affected whether you dance like a monkey, horse, or robot! In 'partner' dancing that is not the case

    Are you advocating for self-learning as a means to popularize 'street' style? :)

    And what percentage of those countless people are above average decent dancers. I have already addressed the aspect of growing up dancing within a culture vs taking something later in the life devoid if its cultural and traditional context. This are two very different things. Like salsa, there are other dances in other parts of the world, that are largely social activity and natives grow up dancing so. When you have to impart teaching/learning in one to many setting, it becomes necessary to breakdown and codify the dancing.

    It is very easy to critic breaking down something and codifying it but without doing so, how do you teach thousands?

    No one is forcing anyone to take classes. I still don't see how presence of classes is killing salsa, if there are countless people who don't need it. Wasn't that the original argument you are trying to defend.

    Seen as repellent and inauthentic by whom? :) And how is it killing salsa?

    Salsa is popular and flourishing because perhaps more of the so called 'studio' trained dancers have taken it up as a hobby and investing in it (whether by taking classes or buying special little shoes, etc). Pursuing something as a hobby is not same as casual social activity for fun. Irrespective, what has above got to killing of salsa (as is the topic of this thread).

    Firstly I don't think there is any regimentation of salsa. Alienation and cultural appropriation of an art form (whether it is salsa, karate, yoga or anything else) is a very valid and different topic worthy of discussion. But that is not basis or explanation a lack of popularity or loss of interest.

    Lack of popularity among younger generation of Latinos (at least those from salsa rich culture) not taking up salsa dancing can't be attributed to regimentation or flourishing of studios in non-latin (i.e. cultures devoid of salsa) places. I am not sure if you can see glaring hole in logic.

    Let's take case of Cali. It is very popular and part of culture there. From all accounts we read, it is also flourishing and no one has said salsa is getting killed in Cali. It is danced socially and I am sure many people there in Cali don't learn it in studios. Yet there are dozen schools in Cali teaching in what you call studio environment and they have students who compete (most of whom are possibly local). Are you saying because those Cali school teach all acrobatic style of dancing (which they do to win the competitions) in their studios, the other people is Cali are getting turned off?

    Or take case of Cuba. From what I hear more youngsters are interested in reggaetone influenced music, than more traditional music that their parents generation liked. Cuba is fairly isolated and excellent case to study. So are you saying youngsters in Cuba are not interested in salsa because somewhere in Miami or Europe there are studios who are teaching people in 'sterile', 'regimented' environment? :)

    Again, I maintain that the original argument was very poor and formed to match pre-desired conclusion? The topic of this thread is 'what kills salsa'.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  7. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    It's probably about choosing the right street where self-learning produces top "street" dancers

    It's however strange that BR also doesn't count as the "street" dance, as many times we actually performed on the street or similar places ...
     
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  8. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    Valid point if you are learning as an adult or as a person living in an environment which cut off from what you are learning. However, not so valid if you are submerged in an environment where salsa or latin music and movement is part of every moment of your life (from the radio, the parties, the tv to the peoples' way of walking, etc).

    Absolutely right, as long as what you codify and teach is the real thing and not an invention!

    While in Italy a year ago, I noticed that a great number of ladies, ranging from non-latinas at early dancing stages to latinas that were dancing for years, prefered to only dance bachata. When I asked latinas to dance they would usually say "I don't know how to dance like that! I never went to a dance school". But when I would manage to dance with them it would be great and I would be able to pull off almost 100% of all my moves, no problem at all, as the ladies would have the right body movement. Non-latinas which are beginners or even intermediate, tend to avoid salsa not only due to the speed but also the over-technical form it has taken. Not only the multiple spins but also the styling is a particular issue because they feel that if they don't lift that arm like the advanced ladies then they are bad dancers. So they stick to bachata for the slower tempo and the closer feeling which hides a lot of technical faults. In other words people are scared to dance salsa because they feel they are constantly compared to more advanced dancers.

    As for Cali and Cuba, these are different environments with traditional latin culture, music and dancing. Every place has its own traditional dance schools. And while they teach fundamentals in a traditional manner, they also teach more performance oriented things too. For Cuba, being so close to the US and with the strong influx of tourists, I could see how youngsters would rebel.
     
  9. elanimal

    elanimal Tumbao

    I don't think you understood the general gist of what I'm saying. Just an hour ago I met another Puerto Rican who grew up between PR and NY, and admitted that he didn't like the way people dance salsa especially in NY, because he said 'they have a certain way of dancing, and if you don't dance that way, you're not part of it. I dance a certain way, they don't understand it.' Here's a 28 year old boricua literally getting pushed out of a place playing Fania songs because of studio regimentation.

    Now, to the part you didn't understand... I'm not saying the regimentation is necessarily bad. I'm saying it is a factor, because the barrier of entry is relatively high for leads, with this new codification.

    No, I am not saying you can learn salsa effectively on the street. I can't think of a single partner dance where that would be possible. I don't know of one single person who has become even decent that way, so you've found unicorns I have not. By this I mean leads, because there are follows who do get decent by just social dancing and taking just a handful of group classes. The only example I can think of is a guy in PR who never went to a studio but, his sister did, and his sister taught him. So did he acquire studio skillz? Absolutely...

    So no, I am not advocating salsa be learned like hip hop or other solo dances. I'm saying that even though the codification ultimately does help to push salsa dancing to another level, and helps us to enjoy it to a greater degree, with more people, and more variety, reaching that level simply takes too long for the majority of normal people who see it as what is supposed to be a hobby, a social activity.

    What's 'killing' salsa, is also helping it. Because it gives us rules to enjoy with more people around the world... but it also increases the activation energy necessary for someone new to stick with it.

    So in my view, the answer is not to take it to the street. I'm arguing for the opposite, but with a clearer, more determined focus on lowering the barrier of entry, and making it easier for leads to learn quickly and cheaply.
     
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  10. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    First of all thank you for this link. It took me sometime to answer as I was going through the dedicated thread. What really surprises me the most is the amount of people that at that time (back in 2010) had very similar views to mine but most seem to have dissapeared or at least reduced their inputs on the need to keep some real social and more latin attitude in salsa. And the interview also indicates something that I mentioned before that the body movement and hip action is what makes a dance a latin dance. Most of what we see in "social salsa" videos lacks that movement and replaces it with more stiff body for higher spinning performance (otherwise screwdrivers would not be straight but would have a hip to work better, right!) and lots of styling. Am also amased to see an old inteview of @DJ Yuca with Elder Sanchez, which confirms a lot of my experiences from the UK scene and added some historical elements (e.g. I did not know that Elder learned salsa from Nelson). Again thanks for that.
     
  11. elanimal

    elanimal Tumbao

    If you don't think salsa has become much more regimented due to the rise of congresses, studio salsa, the Internet, we'll never see eye to eye on this.

    Here's yet another quote from that book I'm reading.

    "The first World Salsa Congress, held in San Juan, Puerto Rico, brought together lovers of salsa from around the world for four days of dance classes, performances, and social dancing. This international convention of salsa dancers, teachers, performers, and vendors, which became the blueprint for hundreds of congresses that emerged over the next few years, brought two central issues into sharp focus. First, regional variation in salsa was so great that people from different cities and countries could not easily dance together. Second, salsa, once a dance shared by family and friends in local communities, had become a multimillion dollar, international, commercial dance industry. This second point raised the stakes of the first. Whose version of salsa dance was to be validated as the object of global commerce? ...

    Salsa congress architect Elí Irizarry responded to my question “what changed as a result of the salsa congresses?” with the following story.

    Elí Irizarry: The first great impact— surprise was that when we start to dance [with] each other, we cannot dance, because there are too many styles.
    Juliet McMains: People came from where?
    EI: The first year— Holland, Curaçao, Venezuela, the States, Japan, Spain. For example, Spaniards dance cubano. It’s rounded, no? Rounded, cubano. The Dutch people dance in cruzado, breaking in front with this . . . [demo]
    JM: With the right foot forward . . .
    EI: And then I [see] this beautiful person, do you like to dance with me?
    JM: And then you’re stepping all over each other.
    EI: [Mimes crashing into partner]. It was amazing. And the first years we were like [fighting sounds and miming physical collisions], trying to . . . to push the statement of “I dance correctly, you don’t.”
    .
    .
    .

    My own MOTHER dances 'cruzado,' i.e., with right foot forward and left foot back. And I had the audacity to tell her it was 'wrong.' But I digress.

    Other parts of the book talk about people dancing on3, dancing off-time, etc. We all know what resulted from this... what we see today. Something a lot more homogenous, where timing specifically is absolutely positively fundamental... whereas before this era, many people who took up salsa would look at you with a confused face saying 'wtf is timing?' Which is actually the same blank stare I get when I try to explain it even to Puerto Ricans who think it's blasphemy to count. Counting is a simple byproduct of this regimentation. Again, if you won't acknowledge even that, then... I guess we'll get nowhere. jaja.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  12. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    So from your long email, we basically agree on the most things, except....

    You are saying lowering barriers of entry would help not kill salsa. The logical question then is what does lowering the barrier mean? How do you lower the barrier? Also you are only referring to making it easier for leads - the assumption being that barrier for entry for a follower is lower or doesn't exist.

    The problem with argument that lowering the barrier will promote salsa is that there will always be some leads who will want to go beyond that. Wait isn't that what has already happened :) Many leads are not satisfied dancing simply, because they are not able to impress followers doing that.

    We rave about those old Puerto Rican dancers who can dance simply and make it look amazing. We forget sometimes that simple is not same as easy. When someone makes something look simple, there is years of efforts that has gone before that. If I were a follower, I would love a lead that has an amazing basic step. Basic step - something very simple. But also something all the masters still practice to perfect after years!

    It is the fact that for non-natives, salsa dancing is indeed more of serious hobby than social activity (or the social activity is side benefit).

    And that is your problem as well as the fallacy. You think making it simple will attract more people. However to make that simpleness look good and feel good requires a lot more practice than indulging in as a social activity for fun :)
     
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  13. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    What is your definition of 'regimented'? To me Ballroom is 'regimented'. I don't consider social dances like salsa, bachata, kizomba, West Coast Swing or Argetine Tango to be regimented. Here is what you get when you google the word 'regimented' : very strictly organized and controlled - Fits perfectly well for how the Ballroom is organized.


    Is it any surprise that during the first salsa congress there were clashes of different styles. Of course there would be. Loosely speaking salsa is danced differently in each (native) local region - barrios of NY vs streets of Cuba vs clubs of Cali, vs Puerto Rico. Of course, when an art form is localized in that way, there are bound to be clashes of style. People will have to adapt to dance with each other.

    What you have presented is an opposite argument - that salsa was fragmented. If something is fragmented and people can't speak the same language, then that will naturally stop something from becoming popular. However that didn't happen. Salsa inspite of all the differences still thrived and become popular. It helped that rather than dozen different styles, a few like Casino, LA on1 and ET on2 became predominant.

    About the 'counting', that is a separate discussion unrelated to what is killing salsa :)

    Please make up your mind on what is killing salsa :)
     
  14. mlemonl

    mlemonl Son Montuno

    It's really interesting to see the discussion on whether the evolution of salsa is 'killing the scene'. I think the two environments being discussed, street/latino causual dancing vs studio-taught dancing, are both exclusive salsa groups in their own way with different barriers of entry. @elanimal described the difficulties of the latter. But regarding the former, if you are a non-latino(a) who has never dance a day in your life, how do you get into the scene of dancers who have danced casually from when they were 5? Would you look out of place because of your race, culture, or just plain unnatural body movement? It would be interesting if someone can share their experience of actively assimilating into this dance culture later on in life versus falling into it.

    This might be depend on location but latin clubs, places for very casual social dancing, latin nights etc, are still around and appear to be growing. When traveling - I can still find social dancing venues (usually latin clubs), but not necessarily dancing socials where the hardcore dancers hang out. I do think that there is a consistent platform for casual, fun social dancing where most dancers begin at. A lot decide that it's a great place to be and are happy but for the dancers that have the desire, time, and money to go beyond, then at least there are studios and workshops for them to go. I think it's safe to say that for any sport or hobby, there is a large casually-interested population, but also a group of aficionados that train for it.

    I'm sure salsa has changed over the years when subjected to technique and cultures. The requirements to win an olympic gold medal 30 years ago is a lot different from what that gold medal demands today. But I think it is also undeniable that that there is segregation in the salsa scene (if there are options). Once dancers get better - they hang out at other scenes, other socials.
     
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  15. elanimal

    elanimal Tumbao

    Lowering the barrier means making this curve less steep for leads. Because it takes too long to get good. By lowering the barrier, I mean it should be the focus of the teacher to get leads to a level where they are good as quickly possible, and as cheaply as possible, as opposed to some teachers that like to keep people on the hook by keeping their teaching standards low. To be very specific, TOO specific, I think the way people teach in group classes, particularly patterns, is very disjointed and actually not regimented enough. What I mean is, you go to a class and it's a crapshoot what you're going to get. Just about every class I've ever been to just throws out patterns with no rhyme or reason. The way leads grow their repertoire is extremely inefficient, because A) they might not be learning what they want to learn, and B? they are learning random patterns without really deconstructing how an advanced leader actually intuitively thinks.

    How does an advanced leader intuitively think, when linking patterns together smoothly? He is think ahead, eventually subconsciously, about what position he is going to be in when he finishes a pattern. Then he goes into his mental bank and pulls out a combination from that particular hold. Advanced leads have multiple patterns at various levels for nearly every hold and position possible, or at least the most common ones.

    How can we structure classes more methodically so that newer leads can build their repertoire more quickly? One idea I've never seen explored is to take one class, and go over ~3 variations with the same hold. That is, 3 variations of left over right. What can you do when you are left over right? How can you get there and how can you get out? Explore as many different options as possible with the students, and give them different levels of what can be done with left over right. Tell them to focus on learning and linking patterns when they are left over right, to get as many options as possible from that hold. Each class can focus on a different hold. Right over left. Open hold. Hammerlocks, in different positions. Copa variations. With a 2 month sequence of classes you don't only give them a boatload of variations, but you teach them to think how advanced dancers intuitively think. And perhaps give them the tools to eventually make up their own stuff, because ultimately, that is what it is... 'Hmm, what can I do here differently... Hmm, I want to get to this position, how can we get here...' That's when it becomes fun for the guy, and the girl...

    And yes, I'm saying the barrier for entry is lower for followers. I don't think anyone would debate this.

    [​IMG]
    Again you misunderstood me. By lowering the barrier I am not advocating for a simpler style, just a more efficient way to teach.

    You have misunderstood everything I've said so expertly, the only conclusion I could come to is that I was just expertly trolled. Like I said, if you don't see that salsa today is more regimented than before, there's no hope for us understanding each other. Either way, if you really do want to understand what I mean, you can read the essays I've written in this thread, it's all right here. You might learn something.

    ^^^^^ and that is how you're condescending, without smiley faces
     
  16. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    On the first point, as someone who did not dance at all until the age of 20, I have been trying to share my experience but has not always been accepted. As I mentioned before, latinos (not US latinos) who dance they usually keep it simple. If they are in a club or a bar (and they like small bars) they usually occupy a certain corner and only dance with their friends for the reasons I explained above. They just want to groove to the music. They are not there to show off what they learned since the age of 5 or prove their superiority over other dancers.

    However, when I danced with BR trained people trained since (or first started at) young age, while I acknowledge that some are excellent dancers there is a great number who are not. And unfortunately a large number of both good and bad BR dancers are extremely arrogant and they will provide comments on their amount of training of the type "I have been dancing for X and Y years", "my teacher is XYZ"", "am an advanced dancer blah blah". These comments now I hear also in the salsa scene from studio/school trained dancers.
     
  17. MrR

    MrR Son Montuno

    I think we should change the current model a bit.

    First, it is not an evolution, but a succession. (From Danzon to Son to Salsa is the evolution, the variation of scenes of salsa is more a succession)
    But i think that is more about putting the right label on it.

    Second, it is not a dualism "street" vs "studio" but more a trinity.
    Freestyle, streetstyle, studiostyle.
    Of course, those got their own internal levels too, but 3 is enough for a simple model.

    Freestyle
    That is what you are describing Live2dance. It's just having a bit fun to the music, maybe there are some basic moves and some holding hands (or other body parts) but it is not yet a defined dance. More a way of enjoying the music.
    The act of dancing is fully subordinated to the people. The people do not take any effort to (actively) improve it.

    streetstyle
    In the next step it becomes defined partnerdancing. Yet, the level of codification is very low and new things are often learned by experimenting and by teaching between peers. High level teaching in this area is the master-student relationship, working very hard to not just teach mechanics but to train understanding.
    This stage is very productive and can already produce very good dancers but over all, every dancer that reaches a good level has to be very creative himself.
    At this level the dance is not subordinated to the people anymore, but the hierarchy is in a constant flux. The people do actively train, they choose their outfit (shoes) to fit what they want to do. But still the dance changes to the needs of the people, to what they want to achieve or what they are capable of.

    studiostyle
    In this step the dance and the teaching of it become finally codified.
    There is a strong teaching hierarchy and the dancer has to subordinate to the dance. Training, equipment, behavior have to be fitted to the dance, while the dance itself stays the same.
    The average member is often discouraged to try something new, experimenting and developing the dance is the right of the elite - which by themselves often never have learned that.
    The efficiency of training allows even the average member to gain relatively good technical abilities, but to the price, that they dance a dance, that does not primarily serves the need of the people.


    I have not been around long enough, but what i have seen myself, read and what i know from other alike scenes (succession is an often repeating process) the salsa landscape has for quite a time been defined by the street (and club) style dancers, bringing a constant flow of new people (from the pool of the freestylers mainly) into the scene.
    During the last decades (probably driven by the Latin boom of the 90s and early 2000s and the success of international congresses) the amount of studio-like teaching and the codification have become dominant over the unruled creativity, increasing the "head" of the studio scene, making them dominant in many places.
    As studio and freestyle dancers don't get along with each other on the dancefloor (while both get along with streetstyle) this leads to a segregation. With that the venues often times becoming either freestyle party or high culture dance venue. This for example leads to the entrance barrier of new people. In places, where the process has already gone further, there already is a bubble of studio dancing. You maybe can join the bubble by becoming part of it, but it does not connect to it's surroundings.

    The majority of the dancers i know are trained to join the bubble and specially some NY-style scenes i know are quite arrogant towards "the false dancing". (They are not the only ones and not all of them are like that. Some react to my hybrid dancing with open animosity, some with a great amount of curiosity.) Most of them aren't even aware of their elitist behavior, praising themselves and their teachers as the great creatives, while they only get deeper into stuff they learn and never experiment for themselves.
    On the other hand many freestylers totally deny investing anything and completely block, whenever you try anything over basic grooving. They don't know any way of achieving technicality, other than the studio dancers way to subordinate to the dance and invest a lot and usually don't have anyone above basic level in their peer group anyway.
    While in a scene, where there still is a strong street style fraction, the basic dancers often are fascinated by the skills of the better dancers, after the segregation, they react to them as aliens, that are trying to hurt their way of enjoying the music. Showdancers are to watch, not to party with.


    Does this "kill" the scene ?
    Not necessarily. If the ballroom bubble can sustain itself, it will survive, same as dances from the mid 19th century have survived in modern ballroom dancing. But it will transform and it will not be a "party and dance" scene anymore but it will become more of a sport activity with music and socializing accompanying it.
    Most of the people, that call themselves salseros will not recognize this division anyway, as they are safe in their bubble, protected from outside influences and information and looking down on those non-dancers, trying to move to music, that is just a mere shadow of the fine music they themselves are dancing to.
     
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  18. LarsM

    LarsM Tumbao

    Anecdote: perfectly describes the scenes in my city. There are regular socials for dancers from the local (non-profit) salsa club, where there are some casual latino dancers (mostly on weekend socials), but not many.
    Then there are latin socials organized by people outside of the club, where there are a lot of casual dancers, the majority of which are latinos, and maybe 10% from the local salsa club. The music is markedly different as well. I've been to the latino socials a few times, but to be honest I find the music so horrible (awful latin pop, crappy merengue, salsaton yada yada) and the dancers so bad (as in drunk and constantly stepping on my feet - yes, even many of the latin@s with their (JOKE WARNING) God-given perfect body movement (JOKE IS NOW OVER :p )) that I no longer go.

    @elanimal,
    nice ideas but I think trying to lower the barrier for entry for leads is moot. Maybe if you implement a revolutionary way of teaching classes in a local setting the word might spread, but it's not like there's a global organization of salsa schools. But as a single teacher/school/club/whatever there's obviously value. But given the end goal (e.g. azzey's chart), overcoming beginner's hell is always going to be hard and require a lot of practice imo.

    I don't consider myself advanced by any means, but even so I very rarely consciously think about what I'm going to do next - it's (almost) all subconscious by now and a combination of many elements. How close my partner is to me (i.e. I won't do anything that's hard if we're too far apart), level of partner, musical elements (mood, speed, break coming up, descarga etc etc).

    Edit: complete aside, but I've noticed that I've filtered out quite a few patterns from my repertoire after I stopped thinking consciously about what to do next. Some of them because they're boring (to me), but others I've simply forgotten about, even if I like them a lot.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
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  19. SalsaGipsy

    SalsaGipsy Capitán Del Estilo

    You are describing quite a number of classes I have attended over the years. Are they all like that? Certainly not. But many of the serious instructors do lessons like that. Not for the beginner level. You need some basis in order to benefit from it. But once you have enough of a database of simple elements then it's a great way to organize them and bring some structure.
     
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  20. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    I liked your description, but I'm not sure about people dancing rueda. Which group they belong to ?
    It has a set of well known moves, danced around the world similar way, just of course that people on the other side of the World don't look exactly like cubans, but moves are similar
    And it is mostly taught in studios and similar places, and it even started that way in Cuba back then ...
    So is it also studiostyle bubble / ballroom bubble ?
     

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