What kills salsa

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by Burritos, Jul 3, 2015.

  1. Atomico

    Atomico Son

    When I picked up dancing, I was new in town, didn't know anyone, and I didn't have a girlfriend either. Incidentally, by now most of my non-work-related friends here are people from the local Salsa scene, and that's also where my girlfriend found me. Of course I could definitely have found someone outside Salsa as well, it's not like I needed Salsa to boost my dating life! ;)

    The others though, the hopeless weirdos who, dating-wise, grasp at straws in the Salsa scene? I find them highly entertaining! :D
  2. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    I get my laughs from the Comedy Channel,,,:D
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  3. El Caobo

    El Caobo Maestro 'Salsa' Palmieri

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    MAMBO_CEC Capitán Del Estilo

    Awesome!! I missed the name of the track you played after the interview?
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
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  5. El Caobo

    El Caobo Maestro 'Salsa' Palmieri

    Guaguancó de los violentos - Típica 73
  6. El Caobo

    El Caobo Maestro 'Salsa' Palmieri

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  7. mlemonl

    mlemonl Son Montuno

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  8. El Caobo

    El Caobo Maestro 'Salsa' Palmieri

    It's not the absence of alcohol, but the absence of support of the venue. In comparison to other club nights, a salsa night is near the bottom in terms of receiving financial support, if not at the very bottom. Therefore, it is becoming increasingly difficult to have and sustain a salsa night.

    It's totally fine if someone doesn't choose to drink alcohol. Yet, when looking at the poll at the top of that thread, what do we think the situation is for the club owners and promoters? If we will not support the bar with alcohol sales, then we can only expect that there will be cover charges and stiff prices for water. There is a direct correlation between non-support of the bar and the cost of other things associated with a salsa night.

    There is no coincidence that the club owners and promoters who chimed in in that thread all have an "issue" with it; while the "dancers" rationalize it.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
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  9. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Most promoters are not good at business. They neither control the venue nor the dancers (i.e customers). What they say is mostly moot.

    Most club owners that host salsa nights provide free water. I am talking about my local scene. Except one, which I don't patronize.

    Honestly there is no correlation between non-support of the bar and cost of other things. If it is a regular establishment (club/bar), their prices for water or anything else don't go up on the salsa night. It is the same whether it is salsa night or not. Therefore I am not sure what you are referring to.

    In other thread I have mentioned it and I will repeat it. Whenever this discussion has come up here and elsewhere, it has always been said by the dancers that if the venue were to stock something they could buy, dances would gladly buy it. Therefore for those club owners and promoters that need to make money by selling stuff, how about stocking stuff that actually sells. It is not a good business to complain about selling something that your customers don't want. Salsa dancers are customers. Treat them as such or don't have salsa nights. I am sure none of these businesses are doing a charity by having a salsa night. If they could make money otherwise, they would.

    P.S. - Plain purified water shouldn't cost five bucks! (to be fair most bars charge 2 to 3 bucks)
  10. Big10

    Big10 Shine Officer

    I think El Caobo's point is that anybody who is "good at business" wouldn't provide a Salsa night at all. There are many more profitable ways of making money. I'm thankful for the people who decided to hold Salsa events because of personal reasons or cultural reasons, because it's rarely the best "business decision" to do so on a long-term (or even short-term) basis.

    Actually, there's quite a high correlation. Venues have a certain amount of fixed costs (especially if there is a live band or even a good DJ), and if they don't make money from the bar, then the admission fee must be higher. If they don't make money from the bar or admission fee, then I suppose serving food is an option -- but most dancers won't eat a lot when they expect to dance a lot. In the end, if there's no support of the bar, a reluctance to pay high cover charges, and low interest in food, then there's not much else to justify holding a Salsa night.
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  11. Our main bar night during the week was in a popular casino restaurant that served food and alcohol and no one really purchased anything for the last year and a half. They gave us our walking papers after last night. No more Wednesday salsa nights which has been the standard for over 10 years. Also the main promoter of the bar nights is stopping for the time being so dance events during the week have officially dried up. With the current shift away from dance clubs to lounge/themed bar events I don't think we'll find a good venue for dance during the week again. :(. Now there are latin mix nights that happen over the weekends which do get the drinking crowd out but even that probably hangs by a thread. For now, dance studio socials are it and I don't know how I feel about that.
  12. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    I don't get it -- if a restaurant/bar salsa night is struggling so much that the only option is cancelling the event, why don't they try either a slightly higher cover or a cover + drink ticket system (where everyone has to buy at least one drink ticket to get in, on top of the cover) before killing the event?
  13. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy Son

    Here we go about the drinks again.

    It kind of depends on the rent for the location, mostly. One drink bought from everybody just won't do. You can't drink enough for a bar to survive on the cost for drinks.
    See, there is a rule of thumb. When your rent for your establishment costs you 3k per month, you got to at least make 30k income a month. Even 30k a month will not make the owner a rich man. He'll have about enough for him self, or spoken in figures, if the establishment runns well, he'll have net 3k per month for him self.
    Now, how many drinks do you think you can buy on a single night, that'll settle any expenses for the owners?
    1 drink costs £3
    100 guests buy 1 drink, so £300 will be made.
    100 guests buy 2 drinks, so £600 will be made.
    You'll probably have 4 Salsa parties in the same location per month. Therefore £2,400 will be made each month on nothing but drinks bought by salseros.
    When all 100 salsa guests pay £10 cover you'll have £1,000 per night and £4,000 per month from the salsa events.
    You currently have £6,400 a month from the salsa parties.

    Let's see if this adds up for the month and this will settle the score.
    £6,400 x 6 days a week in which the bar opens.
    Let's pretend salseros come in every night and pay £10 on cover and £6 on drinks (£384 per month) for this establishment.
    Then we'd have £38,400 a month from nothing but salsa. Keep in mind 2 drinks bought from everybody.
    When nobody buys any drinks at all, you'd have £24,000 per month from nothing but salsa parties, 6 days a week, for weeks a month.
    Think about it! working for 5 hours a day, 6 days a week, and you'll have 24k a month? IF that is, the salseros come every night.
    We are looking for 30k not 24k a month, right? Well the establishment won't just open at nighttimes. ;)
    Let's assume they sell food for lunch as well as in the evening for regular guests. Now we are safly way past the 30k. That means the figures make sense.
    And that means the bars and establishments are not dependent on the drinks bought from the bar from the salseros on the salsa nights.

    As some other mate said earlier, if a bar has to shut down because it's not making any profit, then it's obviously not doing its job right.
    Stupid and bad owners tend to skin a little profit off the top for them self. New car, big flat, jewelry for their lovedones. Works fine for half a year and suddenly poor excuses are found on why the bar has to be shut down. Now the salsero freeloaders come in handy. Those greedy godknowswhat never buying anything from the bar.

    I can only really encurrage you to think through the numbers for your self. It's easy math.
    And ask your self, how come the salsa parties work for 10 years. And all over sudden salseros metamorph into freeloaders?
    And why did the parties work all those years with no to little cover cost? Is it because the owners make enough money over the day until 10PM when the parties started? At 10PM when the kitchen closes anyway, when only the bar is still open, and when hardly any guests come into the establishment anyway?

    Put my theory to the test. The greedy owners have realised over the years they can make serious money from the salsa parties. So now they charge cover. Yeeeah sure, the rent has to be paid, hm? ;)
    Nobody seems to hand out any figures. Wonder why.
  14. mlemonl

    mlemonl Son Montuno

    I think the decline of salsa discussion is only weakly correlated to the venue's ability to profit from salsa. If a venue's main goal is to profit from drinks & cover on a FRIDAY night - there is absolutely no way a salsa venue trumps a nightclub. A nightclub appeals to a population magnitudes larger than the salsa community. Attendees don't necessarily need dancing skills to feel comfortable at a nightclub, more often than not, they need booze. And people there would definitely pay cover + several drinks. So if venue owners expect salsa venue to earn more than a nightclub venue, I'm not sure if that's a smart decision.

    Maybe on nights other than friday/saturday I can see salsa making sense. There's not a lot going on on weekdays and not a lot of drinks sold. But if you host salsa nights on those nights where you don't get a lot of traffic- you get a steady stream of salseros that are willing to pay cover and occasional drinks. Or - owners open a place that is in the middle of NOWHERE, salseros are a population that are willing to drive for dancing. Nightclubbers, not so much. But I'm no business owner...
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  15. khabibul35

    khabibul35 Tumbao

    THIS! If you look at some of the venues that salsa happens on weekdays and compare it to a run of the mill bar/club on that night, you'll see a whole lot more traffic and even if only 10% of those buy drinks, you've made more than you would if there was just a normal weekday bar/low-key music event happening.

    As a salsero, sure I'd like there to be more weekend stuff going on but at this point I'm used to going out Wed/Thu. Those were the two nights I went out in the bay area and it's when I dance here in Zurich. On the occasions that I've gone to special events on Fri/Sat, covers are usually higher and I see the crowd infiltrated with a lot of non-dancers who are getting sloshed just because they can. I guess they think "salsa, that sounds fun" and proceed to drink on the dance floor running into everyone with no regard.

    At this point, I prefer going out weeknights than weekends, even if I only end up getting 6 hours of per sleep. I'll gladly take quality over convenience!
  16. calichris10

    calichris10 Sabor Ambassador

    Hell yes you can, I have a friend who owns a latin night club and on friday and sat he can make upwards of 20,000 on liqour sales. And that doesn't include the door. Sometimes if an outside promotor brjngs a group said promotor takes the door and the club takes the alcohol sales. So I think you are underestimating the importance of alcohol sales.
  17. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy Son

    That's impressive!
    I can muscle down 2 0,4L coke a night with a price of £3. Does the latin night club really have round about 3,300 guests at that night? I'm jealous ;)
    Ok I admit the price for a coke is low, say £6? Even then 1,700 guests a night? Still the place I want to be. ;)
  18. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    latin clubs in the States, generally charge $ 10 and up at the door . Drink costs vary.From $3 - 5 and water $2.. but ...there was a club in Tampa ( one of several ) that owned the liquor store attached to the club which they also owned, and drinks were much cheaper, water was free. also, price on door was $2 for the longest time, and when they changed it to $ 3.. everybody bitched !!. It eventually wen to $ 5 and close about 2 years later. This was a %100 latin club, with all the announcements in Spanish, and a Cuban radio DJ .
    Capacity was about 300... with a central rotating bar..
  19. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy Son

    Did they have a day 2 evening business running in that latin club?
    Did their liquor store run well beyond the club nights?
    Was their business built on the partynights?
    Let's assume worst. 300 guests per evening, everybody pays $2 @ the door per night and everybody buys 2 drinks for $2.
    (300 people x $2 cover + (300 people x (2 x $2 a drink))) x 6 days a week x 4 weeks a month = $43,200 per month.
    Charging $3 for the drinks instead of $2 = $57,600 per month.
    How did they think they'd survive in the first place without a day2evening business?

    They did the right thing to charge $10 at the door + $5 for water. But that would have meant $144,000 per month.
    Assuming they would have stayed with $2 for water and $10 @ the door they'd still make $100,800 per month.

    You say the owned the club and the store. I assume you mean they didn't pay any rent.
    What on earth must have happened that their business went south?
    Who got greedy here? The owner spotting his bazillion in salseros? Or the salseros who thought they got their pants pulled down for a buck?
  20. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    It was open for salsa on Fri.. Sat and Sun nites. The club/store was owned by a very large multi store corporation in many cities in Fla. ( ALL mainly liquor stores ). So as to rent, all under one roof, but I'm sure for accounting purposes.. split costs .And of course, many would buy from the store and stash in their cars until leaving. And, it was located on a very busy high profile road .

    There was a door in the entrance that led to the liquor store ( Ya couldn't bring it into the club ).

    The club was active for well over 10/12 years with the same DJ, The main reason it closed ?, was the DJ ( who was VERY popular ) fell out with owners, and quit. It gradually went down hill ( NOT the liquor store ) , and he went to another local club..
    The one that closed was .. JD Penguins

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