What do you mean by "Guaguanco"?

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by khabibul35, Aug 2, 2016.

  1. MAMBO_CEC

    MAMBO_CEC Sabor Ambassador

    Same dance style modern mambo, different couple. Same song.
    5
     
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  2. arsenio123

    arsenio123 Son Montuno

    To be able to dance different styles you have to know the music and the dance and their history. Most so called salsa "teachers" do not know this for them everthing is 'salsa' and on those salsa congresses they do not teach you!

    Nowadays 'salsa' has been overtaken by so called ballroom dancers teaching the hustle or spins but it is completely different to ballroom, you need to understand afrocuban body movements.....

    Saludos,
    Arsenio123
     
  3. khabibul35

    khabibul35 Tumbao

    Ok, I think this may be among the best slot dances I've ever seen - thanks. It also shows me that I have an inherent bias against slot. From a perspective of a casino dancer, I couldn't help but be bothered by the strict slot kept in the dance... it seems so incredibly unnatural for me to have this one position be preserved throughout the dance. There are three dimensions, but only 2 are being used! Secondly, I find the arm tosses in slot style really weird (2:34 & 2:35) and despise them. Maybe their infrequency is one reason I liked this dance so much.

    Anyway, I know it's just my own bias but I thought I'd share.

    PS - What do people think about the arm the arm styling he did 2:00-2:12? On the one hand it's musical, but it's rather controlling. It seems the follower liked it, which is the most important, but I would never in attempt something of the sort in casino.
     
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  4. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    What makes you think that?
     
  5. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    This clip is giving me a kind of mixed feeling ... it is smooth, partially thanks to his, well, respectful weight ... not sure that his styling, at moments a kind of feminine / childish, goes well with his appearance ... I liked the timing ... for my taste armwork heavy, though much better than terry in that regard ... would like to see more dancing and less playing with arms ... a bit too linear for my taste ... Arm styling at pos 2:00 is a kind of interesting, reminding me to navy flag signaling, I think that I already saw that somewhere in dancing, and it was fun for the follower ... overall they go well together and have fun with each other, but not very inspiring for me to watch ...
     
  6. khabibul35

    khabibul35 Tumbao

    It's musical and actually resembles latin dance. Most on2 dancing either completely ignores the music or is musical in a way that doesn't reflect any carribean movements at all.
     
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  7. arsenio123

    arsenio123 Son Montuno

    To me, On2, casino, Edddie Torres style is all ballroom, there is information on this on this forum. I see nearly the same spins in all three of them. Guaguanco is complelely different? It is not technique it is expression.

    Why?, because afrocuban dance is about what do you express with this. The meaning of guaguanco is a dance between two chickens (male and female) who express with their bodies the movement of these birds, so your arms are the wings of this bird! You express a whole story with your dance. In flamenco dances you will find the same things!

    Someone on this forum said discussing guaguanco as a dance, that it related to Santeria, to Obbatala, the creation god of the Yoruba, who came down as a rooster creating the earth (mountains and valleys) with his wings. So if yo do not know Afrocuban and flamenco mythology you can not dance guaguanco properly!

    Even the spins have a afrocuban mythological background, it is related to rumba Columbia!

    If you dance moves as technique as in ballroom do not know what you are doing or expressing, it has nothing to do with the meaning of the dance! This is white especially Western thinking, but this music and dance is black and related to African thinking!

    Saludos,
    Arsenio123
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
    azana likes this.
  8. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    My friend, you have no idea about ballroom
     
  9. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    The majority of arm actions ,for me , look too contrived.. less is more..
     
  10. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    No offence to either of the people in the vid, but in terms of being musical and actually resembling Latin dance, there is a hell of a lot better out there. Check out Tito Ortos or any of the old school slot style dancers.
     
    vit likes this.
  11. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    I agree to a certain extent, in that slot style salsa and casino are both focused around going to lessons, learning moves etc - the format of ballroom. And both can result in a dance that, as with ballroom, is disconnected from the music.

    But you seem to be suggesting that people should be dancing rumba guaguancó to salsa music - or at least that's how it reads - which doesn't make sense. The term guaguancó in salsa does not refer to the rumba guaguancó rhythm, which may or may not be present in a salsa guaguancó. I think it was your man Arsenio Rodríguez who came up with the guaguancó de salón (or something similar - I don't have time to look it up but it's all been discussed on this forum). It's a different sound that requires a different dance.
     
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  12. arsenio123

    arsenio123 Son Montuno

    Salsa does not exist, it is term used to describe Cuban music played in 1970s in New York, there is no genre or rhythm called "salsa". It is a spanish translation of the Afrocuban word "sandunga" meaning to play the music with spice and pepper, this was used in 1930 and 1940s in Cuba by black musicians.

    Arseno wrote Anabacoa, a guaracha-guaguanco in Son Montuno style played by his conjunto.



    Tito Puente said I play Cuban music, salsa I do use on my patatoes. There is no salsa-guaguanco! Celia cruz said it is a commercial term:


    If you do not now the Cuban genres under the umbrella of "Salsa" go play with your tomatoes and peppers, and leave us alone!

    Saludos,
    Arsenio123
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  13. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    The only one who has demonstrated a shocking lack of knowledge is you. In fact after your recent 'Machito was no innovator' post, I'm surprised you have the nerve to show your face on here.

    Re. the above - TP, Celia and many other mambo greats had their kingdoms usurped by boogaloo then salsa. Consequently they hated both. Personally I like both. They used the Cuban rhythms to create something that was obviously new and different.

    More importantly, as usual you have completely avoided responding to my point. So in your opinion salsa doesn't exist - that doesn't excuse your telling us to dance rumba to salsa music.
     
  14. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    This is the second or third poster in a month who is posting the same response to what salsa is or represents. I guess if salsa does not exist then you can dance whatever you like to it. :D
     
  15. arsenio123

    arsenio123 Son Montuno

    'Salsa' is a general term for Cuban music in New York in 1970s. So musicians in New York played rumba guaguanco, descarga, son montuno, guaracha, guaracha-guaguanco and mambo. People should learn to listen to these Cuban genres and learn to dance to them in the right way.

    People who do not understand this should take their tomatoes and peppers and start a course on Latin cooking how to make tomatosauce for their potatoeso_O, as Tito Puente said, who clearly stated I do play Cuban music.;)

    So we continue with rumba guaguanco and the way this is used in guaguanco-son, guaracha-guaguanco, Cuban genres very many times used by Celia Cruz and other NY musicians:)

    Today I like to introduce the flamenco elements in rumba guaguanco as danced by JLO:


    Saludos,
    Arsenio123
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  16. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    Yet another non-answer. You'd make a good politician!
     
  17. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    We've had salsa to r&b, so why not waltz to salsa? (Yes I know waltz is in 3/4 time, but 3 X 4 = 12 so it is possible.)
     
  18. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    Just do 123 pause 123 pause and you are fine... hold on that is what they do no? :D
     

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