Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by khabibul35, Aug 2, 2016.
Are you sure he's a professor, and is his subject anything to do with what he blogs about?
You are right , my bad..He's not a professor he's a PHD student at the University of Maryland:
Daybert Linares Díaz
Daybert is a PhD student from La Habana, Cuba. His research interests include contemporary Caribbean literature, cultural studies, film, and ethnomusicology.
gracias por todo esto, pero me voy con Celia en este caso . (thanks for all this, but i'm with celia on this one)
y con respecto al articulo desde tu primer punto...me hubiera gustado ejemplos de canciones o artistas con un sonido tan diferente para ser nombrado "salsa", para que pudiera escucharlos y ver si tengo que revisar lo que he pensado hasta ahora. (and with respect to the article from your first point, i would have liked examples of songs or artists with a sound different enough to be named "salsa", so that i could listen to them and see if i have to revise what i've thought up until now)
Tal vez estos canciones!
ambos son classificados como salsa...just my $0.02
Guaguanco is a subgenre of Cuban rumba, combining percussion, voices, and dance. There are two main styles: Havana and Matanzas.
Let's put the guaguanco box together from the Salsa dictionary:
guaguancó -- One of three styles of Cuban rumba, featuring a heightened polyrhythmic structure, and danced by male-female couples (in its traditional folkloric setting). The typical instrumentation (used by all styles) includes: tumbadoras (congas) or cajones (boxes), palitos (sticks) or cucharas (spoons), claves, and marugas (shakers).
cajón(es) -- Wooden box(es) used in early interpretations of rumba, and still popular today.
clave -- A five-note, bi-measure pattern which serves as the foundation for all of the rhythmic styles in salsa music. The clave consists of a "strong" measure containing three notes (also called the tresillo), and a "weak" measure containing two notes, resulting in patterns beginning with either measure, referrred to as "three-two" or two-three." There are two types of clave patterns associated with popular (secular) music: son clave and rumba clave. Another type of clave - 6/8 clave - originated in several styles of West African sacred music.
diana -- The vocal introduction in the genre of Cuban rumba, which "tunes up" the choir by providing a melodic line before the verse(s).
décima -- A ten-line, octosyllabic verse, typically found in the lyric form of the Cuban son, and in some styles of rumba.
palitos -- "Sticks" (lit.); specifically, the sticks and pattern played by the sticks in the genre of Cuban rumba.
quinto -- The highest-pitched drum in a set of three drums used in the styles of rumba, which improvises throughout.
This is not all but it will do for a good start of it's musical aspects!
To understand guaguanco a bit deeper. We add some other things. Where does the word guaguanco come from? From wawa and koko. The first is a rhythm and the second has the meaning of 'knocking on wood' (woodblock). Putting together gives wawako of Spanish guaguanco.
Where does the word rumba coming from?
La palabra rumba parece provenir del encuentro de palabras de raíz bantú, como tumba y nkumba y de varias expresiones de origen español (andaluz) como rumbo, gente de rumbo etc. La lengua en la que están cantadas las rumbas, las formas literarias (por ejemplo la décima) y los giros melódicos confirman la presencia de elementos hispánicos. La opinión del percusionista cubano Mongo Santamaría que el guaguancó no era otra cosa que un negro cubano tratando de cantar flamenco, puede parecer exagerada. Sin embargo algunos investigadores han señalado la presencia de características del cante andaluz en la rumba. Como dice el investigador cubano Odilio Urfé: "Melodicamente la Rumba-Guaguancó se proyecta con evidente tipicidad, aunque constantemente se ve presionada con la estilística cadencial del canto andaluz, especialmente en las "dianas" que dan inicio a cada canto y los tanteos o floreos que el tonista improvisa entre los motivos que responde el coro.
The word rumba seems to come from the encounter of words from Bantu root, such as tumba and nkumba and various expressions of Spanish origin (Andalusian) like party, or party people etc. The language in which the rumbas are sung, the literary forms (for example the tenth) and the melodic turns confirm the presence of Hispanic elements. The opinion of the Cuban percussionist Mongo Santamaría that the guaguancó was nothing more than a Cuban black trying to sing flamenco, may seem exaggerated. However, some researchers have pointed out the presence of characteristics of Andalusian cante in rumba. As the Cuban researcher Odilio Urfé says: "Melodically the Rumba-Guaguancó is projected with evident tipicity, although it is constantly under pressure with the cadential stylistics of the Andalusian song, especially in the diana "that starts each song and the floreos that the singer improvises among the motives that the choir responds to.
One of the most beautiful rumba guaguancos I have ever seen....
Great musicians and great dancers!
In Cuba the rumba is generally considered the most influential poular music and dance form in Cuba. Its Central African roots are obvious from the word 'rumba' itself to the type of drum, conga, used to perform it. The word is probably derived from the Kikongo lùmba (to go, walk, 'work out' or 'get down').
There are three basic styles of rumba: yambú, a slow, elegant couples dance; guaguancó, a dance of flirtatious competition between male and female dancers; and columbia, a fast solo demonstration of athleticism performed by males.
Yambu is derived from the Kikongo dyambu (word, opinion, thought, judgement, etc.) The plural of dyambu is mambu, which is the source of the word and the dance mambo in Cuba.
Guaguancó is most likely derived from the Kikongo phrase kwa wa kó, literally 'you never listen'. The phrase is also an onomatopoetic rendering of the playing of a drum or the clicking of sticks together. Interestingly, the clave, the basic rhythmic pulse of rumba, is maintained by striking together a pair of hard wooden sticks, also known as 'clave.'
In rumba the standard drum is called the 'conga drum' because of its Congolese cultural origins. Within the rumba instrument ensemble the largest drum with the lowest pitch is called the tumbadora, most likely derived from the tumba or ditumba drum of Central Africa. Both words are from the Kikongo and Kiluba languages.
Thanks to prof. Daniel C. Dawson from New York.
Nice but seems a bit contradicting the earlier post on the mix of Bantu and Spanish origins of the name rumba. My understanding is that Bantu is quite spread in both central and southern Africa. But ok...I am wondering if there is really a Spanish influence there?
There is no contradiction. There are 2 parts the Congo part and the Spanish flamenco part. I explain the Bantu/kikongo words first. The Spanish influence is obvious, the language is Spanish!
Los munequitos de Matanzas knows exactly where to comes from congo yambumba
Please do some own research before start "obvious" questions... All my posts are based on the best researchers on Cuban Rumba!
Well since you are so good in providing information I will wait for your Spanish second part.
I already mentioned diana -- The vocal introduction in the genre of Cuban rumba, which "tunes up" the choir by providing a melodic line before the verse(s).
Cuban researcher says Odilio Urfé which I qouted said this is coming from:
Sin embargo algunos investigadores han señalado la presencia de características del cante andaluz en la rumba. Como dice el investigador cubano Odilio Urfé: "Melodicamente la Rumba-Guaguancó se proyecta con evidente tipicidad, aunque constantemente se ve presionada con la estilística cadencial del canto andaluz, especialmente en las "dianas" que dan inicio a cada canto y los tanteos o floreos que el tonista improvisa entre los motivos que responde el coro.
However, some researchers have pointed out the presence of characteristics of Andalusian cante (meaning flamenco) in rumba. As the Cuban researcher Odilio Urfé says:
"Melodically the Rumba-Guaguancó is projected with evident tipicity, although it is constantly under pressure with the cadential stylistics of the Andalusian song, especially in the diana "that starts each song and the floreos that the singer improvises among the motives that the choir responds to"
So I already mentioned important Spanish/flamenco parts of Rumba Guaguanco! Listening to the lecture of Juan de Marcos Gonzalez on European influence on Cuban Popular Music is essential!
To be more specific in flamenco floreos, the soloist is singing "meaningless" syllables such as lalalala this is called Diana in Cuban Rumba. In this the first singer starts a line or refrain. He then may proceed to improvise lyrics stating the reason for holding the present Rumba, he starts to 'decimar' : to make ten-line stanzas.
The decima came also with the flamenco:
A décima refers to a ten-line stanza of poetry, and the song form generally consists of forty-four lines (an introductory four-verse stanza followed by four ten-line stanzas). It is also called "espinela," after its founder, Vicente Espinel (1550–1624), a Spanish writer and musician of the Siglo de Oro.
When the first slaves came from the ships to Havana Cuba and had no instruments they used wooden sticks (Claves) and songs (tonadas, cante jondo) as in flamenco, this is how Cuban Rumba started....
Arsenio, you clearly know your stuff, but what I'd really like for you to shed light on is to what extent these elements of guaguanco are present in the New York salsa sense of the word. I really have a hard time understanding how one can justify the music or the dance here being called guaguanco:
This is a guaguanco-son the basic clave is guaguanco-clave it is easy to hear! He plays the guaguanco variations on the congas. I hate those 'spin robots' dancing the same spins/hustle to every song/genre not knowing anything about the music or the dance....
We know that people (moors, jews, blacks, gitanos) were made slaves and deported from Andalucia to Cuba. Out of this came cante flamenco/cante jondo)which incoporated the way people sang in their synagoge and their mosque.
In the mosques they were used to sing to Allah they had to hide this after the Inquisition, this became A-LeH and lalala (allah!) We can find this in the floreos of flamenco and in the bulerias of Southern Spain(Andalusia): Buleria is one of the oldest flamenco-style dances performed by gitanos (gypsies); the lyrics are improvised on the spot by the singer; the audience encourages both singer and dancer with shouts of A-LEH! (ole!), an archaic reference to Allah. The music, singing, and dance are all usually improvised around a rhythmic pattern of 12 beats (3 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 2).
This flamenco tradition came to Cuba in the dianas of the Cuban Rumba. Cuban Rumba has strong hidden Moorish roots......
Jaja its true, the dance does not fit the music at all.
PS: Thanks for such detailed information!!
Yes, this confirms what I learned when I briefly studied flamenco, specifically bulerías y sevillanas. Furthermore, moorish control of Spain remained longest in the southern part, known as Andalucía.The birthplace of flamenco is in Sevilla, the capital of Andalucía, in the neighborhood called Triana. Interestingly enough, although flamenco is popular throughout Spain it is the most popular in the south, in the Andalusian region.
I lived in Sevilla for a year and have traveled throughout Spain extensively over the last 13 years.
@arsenio123, I agree with you and manzanadulce that the dance doesn't fit the music. However, how would one dance to this musically? Does such a dance style even exist nowadays?
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