What do you mean by "Guaguanco"?

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by khabibul35, Aug 2, 2016.

  1. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura El Sabroso de Conguero

    lol @ "not suitable for dancing", that's entirely subjective -- to some of us they are highly suitable for dancing. ;) Dancing to Markolino Dimond's intense son montunos, especially a really slow one like "Yo no tengo pena" or "Mariquita" (both of these btw we can dance as either salsa or cha cha, or a combination of both, since the cha cha tumbao is stronger at certain points but not others, so it's a song that gives a lot of freedom for spontaneity in dancing) is like salsa on crack, it brings you completely and fully "into the moment".

    Here are more songs from him that are very suitable for dancing :)









     
    #81
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  2. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura El Sabroso de Conguero

    More Markolino...



     
  3. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    From the little that I do know, yes, this is an extremely complex matter. The tempo itself will not always dictate what the genre is, although guarachas are usually pretty fast. Gaurachas are also usually about having fun and partying. Son montuno can be slow or fast but guaracha is ALWAYS fast. Guajira, on the other hand, is best identified and defined by the lyrics which tend to discuss farm/rural life even though the tempo is usually just like a slow son montuno. But what makes it NOT son montuno in that case are the lyrics.

    Obviously this is even more challenging for those of us who aren't native spanish speakers and can't easily understand song lyrics (which are often loaded with double entendres and references to cultural matters). This is also why the umbrella term, "salsa", was created to include all of the different rhythms recognized within son, since they are sometimes tricky to identify.
     
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  4. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    If they are rhythms recognised within son then that makes son an umbrella term - so to say the term salsa was created simply to provide an umbrella term doesn't actually make sense (because one already existed).

    The term salsa was created because there was a new form of music without a name. However the music clearly uses son as its starting point, hence the fact that the rhythms are taken from son.
     
  5. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    There are many, many different rhythms recognized within the genre of son cubano, among them: guaracha, guajira, guaganco, montuno...

    Yes, son is a general term that encompasses many different rhythms. In that sense you could call it an umbrella term. As I said in my previous post, there are many and they are hard to recognize, especially if you are not a native spanish speaker.

    There are people who say the term, salsa, was created because there was a new form of music without a name. my answer to that is, not really.

    In the 70's, the fania all stars made latin music popular in new york, but it wasn't really a new genre of music. if you listen to "salsa" music from the 1970's-present and listen to cuban son there is literally no way to distinguish between the two. i did an experiment and listened to tons of son, both older and newer songs, and then i listened to "salsa dura" songs that were recorded by the fania all stars and others and tried to figure out if there really was a distinct difference between "salsa" and "son". i could not pick out one thing that made any of them sound different from each other.

    the term "salsa" is meaningless really. "son" is the true umbrella term for that type of music. but people use the word salsa without realizing that it really refers almost exclusively to son.

    there is a lot of controversy regarding this issue. actually, the wikipedia article here does a pretty good job explaining it, for anyone curious: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsa_music
     
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  6. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    funny since so many "salsa dura" songs are guaracha rythyms. in new york, a lot of people like dancing to fast songs. when a slower one is played the dance floor clears out. especially the son montunos. frankie's social is the exception, as he plays many slower songs, but it's not the norm in the scene. i always try to dance casino when they play the montunos at the nyon2 socials, that's the only time there's enough space on the floor, lol.
     
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  7. MAMBO_CEC

    MAMBO_CEC Sabor Ambassador

    To quote my friend Juliet:
    upload_2016-8-17_16-24-10.png
     
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  8. MAMBO_CEC

    MAMBO_CEC Sabor Ambassador

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  9. MAMBO_CEC

    MAMBO_CEC Sabor Ambassador

    And with that I bid you a goodnight with a little guaganco ditty:
     
  10. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    @MAMBO_CEC gracias por todo esto, pero me voy con Celia en este caso ;).

    y con respecto al articulo desde tu primer punto...me hubiera gustado ejemplos de canciones o artistas con un sonido tan diferente para ser nombrado "salsa", para que pudiera escucharlos y ver si tengo que revisar lo que he pensado hasta ahora.:rolleyes:
     
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  11. Offbeat

    Offbeat El Sabroso de Conguero

    and a translation please ...

    :)
     
  12. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    That statement could not be more inaccurate. Sure there was a minority of NY salsa that was classed as 'straight Cuban' and in which the NY influence was subtle (but certainly present). However the vast majority of salsa is not straight Cuban and obviously sounds vastly different to the music that came out of Cuba. To suggest otherwise is highly disingenuous.

    I already posted the Dimond tune Los Rumberos in this thread - I've heard a hell of a lot of son and I've never heard anything that sounds like that. Perhaps you can find a tune for us along similar lines - recorded in Cuba.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
  13. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    Anyway even if that were correct, my 1st point still stands - you wrote that salsa was used because people needed an umbrella term for all the son rhythms, but as you have admitted, son is an umbrella term. So of course there must be another reason why a new term was needed.
     
  14. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    My guess would be that, many do not know how to dance to "slow" music.

    It's todo mundo in all dance genres, that, slower music is far more difficult to express, than fast . There are numerous patterns that, just don't work well with slow tempo's .

    One of the major aspects of my teaching, is to introduce my students to slow tempo salsa songs, and particularly, in Cha cha ( mainly Guajira's ) .
     
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  15. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    Maybe the so-called ET2 style of stepping on2 that has become standard on the salsa scene is not actually as versatile as the P2 style that has been discarded. (Or maybe there's another reason why many dancers are not responding to slower songs, and those that do prefer a different style of dance.)
     
  16. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Congress, and DJs ( some ) who never play slower tempo songs...Ironically, when slower Romantica styles are played, packed floor ( IME )
     
  17. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    Well Celia became a salsa star by doing the same thing she did in Cuba - but her bands in NY certainly weren't playing like the Cubans were. Still if all salsa sounded like Celia Cruz she might have a point - but of course it doesn't.

    In fact, much as I love Celia, her best recordings were those from before the salsa era.
     
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  18. MAMBO_CEC

    MAMBO_CEC Sabor Ambassador

    Firstly I don't know if you had the official welcome to salsa forums. If not,welcome to salsa forums!! I like your articulate posts a lot. Yes there is a lot of controversy about the issue. Even here where at one point one thread had to be locked, because the discussion got so heated. From my perspective. I am just trying to learn as much as I can about the subject to make an informed opinion, that's why I posted both sides of the story. The last time I posted what I thought was a relatively innocent article by Professor Daybert Lineares about the subject, some people got upset. I try to read stuff by academics and keep an open mind where this genre is concerned, if you can't trust academia, well then who can you?

    http://www.salsaforums.com/threads/attn-myst-dj-yuca-two-centes-tipper-tall-paul-etc.24471/
    http://www.salsaforums.com/threads/cuban-salsa-you-like-it-know-about-it.4770/
    http://www.salsaforums.com/threads/casino-with-salsa-dura-and-mambo.28239/page-22#post-311964

    Anyway it's always good to hear the New York perspective.
     
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  19. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Those that were there ?
     
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  20. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    Thanks @MAMBO_CEC, hope to see you again in New York soon! And thanks for the welcome .
     

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