Wayne Gorbea

Discussion in 'Salsa Music' started by gabe0725, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. gabe0725

    gabe0725 Descarga

    Had a few of his albums in my collection but never really listened to them. I recently heard 1 of his older albums & it was crazy heavy!!!! Love it!!!

    Does anyone have a complete discography of all his albums???

    Also, how many times did he record "Prakatun" & "Cogelo El Gusto". Think I have 3/4 of his albums & their on about 3 of them! LOL
  2. el_flaco_rumbero

    el_flaco_rumbero Nuevo Ritmo

    here's what I have......I've heard a rumor that there was another recording on SMC titled Epocas de Antaño or something'eruther....but never seen it.......maybe Richie, our trusty Salsyclopedia can debunk or confirm:

    * Salsa Boricua on SMC-Pro Arte (what I used to think was a unique cover, is actually a generic picture I've seen on about 3 or 4 albums....2 that come to mind are this and Orquesta Felipe Carpio - Salsa Inglesa on Borinquen)
    * La Salsa del Conjunto Salsa (cover with his face on it)
    * La Salsa y Charanga (cover with him playing piano)
    * Sigan Bailando (black cover......with a picture of the band)
    * El Condimento (colorful cartoon looking cover of a can of sauce)
    * Salsa Picante - Cogele el Gusto (cd with colorful cover)
    * Saboreando...Salsa Dura en el Bronx (cd with colorful cover)
    * Fiesta en el Bronx (cd with colorful cover)
    * Prakatun! Cogele el Gusto <<<------I don't have this....so not sure if it's a compilation
    * Introducing (this is just a "best of")

    There's a live album too I think.....
  3. el_flaco_rumbero

    el_flaco_rumbero Nuevo Ritmo

    ....went to Descarga to find out about that Prakatun album....and John Child's did a little bio on Wayne Gorbea......no mention of that other lost album.....curious. Also mentions a 12" single with Ariñañara / The Night is still young.....which I also don't have......*sigh*.....always something else to find....haha.

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  4. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    Hey guys!

    Unfortunately I can't help with regards to Wayne. I never dug him so I never bothered to focus on his work. I have some of those CDs you cite, but they're really not my cup of tea. One thing about Wayne Gorbea's recordings for me is that they lack originality. Not saying that it sounds horrible. But it doesn't excite me because a lot of what he produces has been done already. He'll use coros that you'll hear on a Los Van Van record or cover a bunch of songs by folks who were prominent in the 70s or just take the melody of a classic and re-write the lyrics and make it new. Orlando Marin does this as well [which is why I don't necessarily dig him either.]

    Unless it's from the 1940s or 50s or is a musician that is of a really high caliber who recorded in the 70s, 80s, 90s (like Cachao, Tito Puente and others) neither Fania artists nor band leaders like Wayne Gorbea interest me.
  5. gabe0725

    gabe0725 Descarga

    U know Rich, I noticed that also. And it's weird because I believe 2 of the albums I have, I would definitely say their older albums but yet, they still have these remakes. Very rare for times back then just to redo someone else's work. I didnt think his playing was bad. Just not spectacular. Figured why I always looked at them as a "local' band. Dude is always getting alotta gigs or WASSSSS getting alotta gigs back in the day. Cuz I remember him in the 90's during the RMM boom & he was playing EVERYWHERE w/his band.

    I have been rocking "Los Rumberos" on my iPod.
  6. El Caobo

    El Caobo Maestro 'Salsa' Palmieri

    There has only been one Wayne Gorbea tune that I liked. "Estamos en salsa." The others are just "ok."

    As for the Fania artists, many of their songs have folkloric value today, though not as moving to dancers, collectors or those with finely tuned ears, such as Richie's. For example, I was at a salsa dance venue where the dee jay claimed to be an old-school dee jay and played "Pedro Navaja." Pedro Navaja is definitely a folkloric hit, but not suitable for a dance club. I was totally disappointed, as were the majority of the other dancers.

    However, listening to the entire Fania collection has been revealing. I have discovered many, many obscure tunes, or as some would call them, "b side tunes," that are simply HOT!

    The same can be said of the classic soul and r&b tunes that I have been screening since I began a radio show that features it.
  7. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    The chorus melody of 'Estamos en Salsa' is the same as Sonido Bestial by Richie Ray & Bobby Cruz. That's why I don't dig them. I think of RR&BC when I hear that song and these guys coming up with these generic lyrics that don't really convey anything thought provoking or making any sort of profound statement. It's pretty vague when you think about it. Estamos en Salsa. Well what the heck is that? Sonido Bestial you know what they're talking about. Hard Core Sound they'r eplaying and as such they play like monsters. Wayne just doesn't speak to me. He's a poor man's Eddie Palmieri. But to each their own and is only my opinion. One man's meaningless music is another person's treasure.
  8. El Caobo

    El Caobo Maestro 'Salsa' Palmieri

    Can't argue with that logic, Richie! However, I must say that I really don't like Richie Ray and Bobby Cruz, neither before, nor after their conversion to christian salsa. I will admit, however, that it's been a while since I've listened to them. I'll give them another shot soon. :)
  9. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    Truth be told, I'm a big fan of their very early work. The stuff from the 60s. Richie in particualr was showcasing his jazz chops a lot. I'm only partial to SOME of the material from the early 70s and ZERO upon their conversion to Christianity. They were more hip when they were heathens destined to burn in hell. :D
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  10. DJ Ara

    DJ Ara Clave Commander

    That track is still big in some of the top salsa clubs here in Cali. I think that Gorbea's later releases did somewhat contribute to the resurgance of salsa dura in the same way as releases made by Jimmy Bosch and a few others.

    I am curious, how was the rest of his set? I ask, because sometimes the DJ may have just played it to satisfy a "Navajanoid". ;)

    I have a feeling that the 1970s are still hiding a lot gems that we need to discover! :)
  11. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    I've noticed this with WG too. I have a couple of his albums, but I've not listened to them for years - nothing wrong with them, but they don't grab me.

    Orlando Marin I do like, though. Maybe he didn't innovate anything - I'm nowhere near enough knowledgable to confirm - but he recorded some great tunes. La Casa is a classic, imo, and even the lyrics are referring to topical events of the time. If that tune is derivative, it sounds very distinctive to me.

    Marin's not in the league of TP, Machito, T Rodriguez, Mongo etc though, I admit.
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  12. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    Who else do you like from the 70s onwards?

    (You're reminding me of TP's comments, as related in the Mambo Diablo book.)
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  13. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    You know what? You're not far off. I've become a snob somewhat towards the 70s. But the only reason is due to the music that came before. I just find it a whole lot more higher quality. The musicianship overall. The swing. As a result, I could no longer tolerate listening to a record by a group like the Ghetto Brothers or Johnny Colon. It's just way off the grid for me after hearing the orchestras of Bebo Valdes and Miguelito Miranda. My "Ears" have forced me to change my musical tastes and not settle.

    With that said, from the 70s my preferences are Bobby Paunetto, Orq. Tambo, Eddie Palmieri, Willie Colon circa 1970-1975, Johnny Pacheco, Ray Baretto circa 1960s-early70s with Manny Roman and Adalberto Santiago, Armando Sanchez & Son De La Loma, Machito's Salsa Big Band, Tipica '73, LIBRE, Ismael Rivera y Los Cachimbos, Mon Rivera, Charlie Palmieri, Tito Puente, Roberto Torres, SAOCO, Cachao, Grupo Folklorico y Experimental Nuyorquino, Irakere and that's pretty much all that comes to mind right now.
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  14. groovetpt

    groovetpt Capitán Del Estilo

    So, Richie... how did that whole Salsa Romantica thing work for ya? :D
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  15. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    Capital Y-U-C-K.

    I completely hated the Big 3 [Eddie Santiago-Frankie Ruiz-Lalo Rodriguez]. To this day I find their music "hicky" or "hick-like." Meaning 'Un-Hip.' Worst of all were the bandwagon jumpers. Willie Gonzalez, Hector Tricoche, Paquito Guzman, etc. The 80s was the worst period of the Salsa Romantica/pop style IMHO. When the 90s rolled around, I honestly thought, at first, that it was kind of exciting. There seemed to be a new excitment in the air from the emerging new artists like La India and Marc Anthony. El Canario was popular and coming into his own. Tito Nieves, Tony Vega, Johnny Rivera, Ray Sepulveda, etc. were being recognized as top artists. They were seasoned artists, but still fairly young. Sergio George brought a new *sound* that, listening to it today in retrospect, had one foot in the classic style and the other in a commercial wavelength. Kind of like Willie Colon who mabaged to successfully combine the traditional with the commerical. But as soon as RMM Records and those artists took off, that *sound* began to get emulated by everyone and began to dilute it. Great Soneros like Gilberto Santa Rosa, Domingo Quinones and Victor Manuelle, who would have otherwise ripped up the recording studio with nasty, but tasty,
    improvisational verses with a more 'tipico' mindset from a producer were left to become mortal singing those sappy, energeticless, boring songs that dominated their recording resume throughout that decade.

    It just completely went south. I could have probably tolerated it had it been associated with a select few artists but everyone who would eventually emerge as a new artist was recording that way. The Sir George style. All the active arrangers like Isidro Infante, Ramon Sanchez, etc. copied Sir George and produced clones. They saturated the entire market with it. All the multi-national labels followed suit. And then to make matters worse they began to strictly go by looks rther than real chops. The 'CARA LINDO' effect. Frankie Negron, George Lamond, Roberto Avellanet, Kevin Ceballo, Giro, Jerry Rivera, Huey Dunbar, etc.

    Despite what was being pushed on the public via the mainstream commercial radio stations and television, thank god there was a balance on the street level via "live" gigs and people didn't have to exclusively stick with what radio was saying was top 40 or 'the best'.

    So yeah... I hate "Sal Roman." He was a real creep... :D
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  16. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    I can relate to what you're saying. The 50s and 60s were great eras for music, including Latin music. Personally I also regard the 70s highly, although perhaps salsa didn't quite reach the heights of the mambo era.
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  17. gabe0725

    gabe0725 Descarga

    WOW! Couldn't stand Frankie Ruiz. That's a 1st dude. Eddie Santiago & Lalo in that romantic stage, I couldn't care for them either. Except for maybe a tune here or there.

    Funny you mentioned Robert Avellanet. Didn't think anyone remembered that dude. I remember going to the old Copa, down the block from all the car dealerships in Manh & he was playing. Outta all people, he had Allende & Quinones playing for him. 2 musicians w/a long resume & not even they could make his stuff sound good that @ 1 point, I looked & Allende cuz we were on the same softball team, he looked @ Quinones & they just both gave each other a look basically saying, "this **** is garbage" lolol. And then he mumbled the same to me. As good as RMM was w/the talent, they were just as bad with the talent cuz a good majority of those pretty faces had no business having any type of contact.
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  18. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    I hear you. It's not that I despise the 70s. I just currently no longer care for a lot of the music that most Salseros find to be of the greatest ever. Which is usually dominated by Fania product. I'm more into the folks who were off the beaten path commercially. And that's only been a recent phenomenon. Angel Canales, Son De La Loma, SAOCO, Linda Leida, Mario "Papaito" Munoz, Hector Rivera, Vitin Aviles, Machito, Totico y sus Rumberos, Bobby Rodriguez y La Compania, the Lebron Brothers, Mongo Santamaria, LIBRE, etc. With that said, I still believe the 40s-50s and EARLY 60s [pre-Boogaloo] had by far the greatest musicianship ever. I listen to the Fania All-Stars now and then turn to the Cuban Jam Session recordings of the late 50s and it doesn't even come close. I can now 'hear' just how sucky the FAS really are. Out of tune choruses, the 'sloppyness' in some of the playing, certain musicians playing out of tune in their solos, etc. The older stuff is 'clean'. They're pretty much the model of excellence for the guys then and today.
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  19. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    You know that those guys are just trying to pay the bills. They were part of the in-house RMM staff/studio musicians. Robert Avellanet, like Kevin Ceballo was Ralph Mercado's and Isidro Infante's idea of trying to produce another Marc Anthony. Young guys who were prettier than Marc who came from a pop culture tradition. In Kevin's defense, at least he was musically inclined. I was at a recording studio once in the west 30s [manhattan] where he was singing coro for this young lady and he sat down and started to play the piano quite beautifully. He had a powerful voice like Marc and could hold a note just as well as anyone. But in the end, he's being given material by folks who have one thing in mind and that's a commercial return in their investment.

    Those kind of artists are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The old school crowd is never going to dig them because their young and they already pre-conceived notions. And the younger market that RMM was trying to tap into can't relate to these guys. Roberto Avellanet. Who is he? What about him is there that anyone could have related to? His songs were saying the same thing every other commercial salsa song were saying. Another freakin' heartbreak lament. On top of that he had no musicality for this music. Thus the band not swinging. Those lousy intros on every salsa romantica tune were exceptionally horrid. So the music didn't make you dance, it didn't inspire any admiration for him as an artist, so who's going to invest in you? And that's why he's nowhere to be found today.
  20. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    You may well be right there.

    I believe it's the same with other genres. Much as I appreciate soul and funk from the 70s, and I immersed myself in it for many years, I have come to the conclusion that the r&b/soul/blues from the 50s and 60s had more to it.
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