Teachers That Don't Teach What They Dance

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by khabibul35, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    You'll like this:

  2. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Well, yes :) But in that context I meant the Cuban dancer asks me to dance ET2 with him. :)
    DJ Yuca likes this.
  3. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Except "Puerto Rican salsa", in my experience dancing in both PR and NYC's Harlem, comes "dangerously" close to Cuban son/casino ;) I.e., it is significantly more circular than what most on1/ET2 dancers dance.
    khabibul35, DJ Yuca and vit like this.
  4. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

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  5. LarsM

    LarsM Nuevo Ritmo

    Well, apparently the local dancers will soon be switching to "puerto rican salsa" from linear on1 (and a tad of NY on2), I expect a lot of confused faces! :D
  6. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    For me it's speed and space. If song is faster or there is less space, I'll do more linear stuff. Otherwise I'll explore abundance of space and time. And of course if there is almost no space and time, then dancing happens on the spot. :)
  7. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    Old school PR style: yes. But unless it's advertised as old school PR style it's quite reasonable if those teaching PR style teach contemporary PR style. Which is definitely slot style - look at Tito Ortos or Dicky Colón. (Of course although it's slot style it certainly isn't identical to or interchangeable with NY style.)

    Here's some no name PR dancers of today who are mostly using the slot a lot:

    (I love these dancers, particularly the bald-headed gent on the right of the screen.)

    Even when we look at old school NY/PR dancers, they are distinguishable from today's dancers in the lack of the hustle influence, but the only ones I've found on film do use crossbody lead not dile que no and sure as hell don't look like today's casineros:

    (I love this film too. I've posted both films before on this forum.)
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  8. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    I didn't watch the whole (first) video but the bald gentleman you pointed out started doing casino moves just as the camera was moving away from him :p
    DJ Yuca likes this.
  9. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    The gent in question uses crossbody lead not dile que no throughout the dance and also goes into shines constantly - that isn't casino. Ditto the other dancers.

    But they're definitely closer to the Afro-Cuban roots of salsa than contemporary (or salsa scene) NY style.
  10. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Except PR is significantly more linear than Cuban/Casino :D

    I think PR style had more influence on NY/LA than Cuban. Oh please keep out hustle and swing (yes they definitely had influence).
  11. khabibul35

    khabibul35 Tumbao

    That's a very interesting video. It's a pretty funky mix between casino and slot, but I totally dig it! I'd like to try casino with some of these dancers to see how they'd respond. I imagine it'd go well.

    Anyway, back to the video: yes, the two guys in the front do dance in a slot, but the vocab is quite casino-based, including guapea. If you look in the background you'll see a lot more DQN and circular turn patterns, not exclusively, but switching between the two.

    The older gentlemen in the red striped shirt and the blue dress shirt definitely use DQN. The guy in the striped shorts does derecha (a son-based rotation to the right) and coca-cola with a led forward step after. This guy dances more Cuban-style than about half of the teachers that teach it!

    If anything, I'd say this video proves that the NY/LA slot styles were manufactured in dance classes rather than on the street. Calling that style "Puerto Rican" is very misleading!
  12. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    Me too.

    Didn't someone on here state that guapea isn't a bonafide casino move? Also I thought guapea is done with the lead stepping back on the left on the 1,2,3, then stepping forward on the 5,6,7 - or at least that's how I was taught it when I learnt a little casino. Whereas whenever I see Puerto Ricans or old school Nu Yoricans doing their move they do a backstep on both sides. Is that still a guapea?

    The only blue shirt I can see is the gent to the right of the screen - that's not a dress shirt. That style of shirt probably has a name which I can't recall - it's half sleeve and meant to be worn tucked out, meaning it's too casual to be a dress shirt.

    Anyway . . . it may be more Cuban than many Cuban style teachers but it still isn't casino. There are lots of elements that you won't find in today's NY style but to me it looks like they are using CBL not dile que no, plus they all go into shine position - something else that is really not a feature of casino.

    True but exactly the same thing can be said of casino. The main influence is economic: non-Latins want to attend lessons, not to learn the basics but as a long term past-time. To satisfy that demand requires an endless stream of reasonably complicated moves. Do you think all or even the vast majority of casino moves would exist if it weren't for the salsa industry? Do you think dancing casino would be as popular as it in Cuba (which is not very by all accounts) and as it is with Cubans outside Cuba, if it weren't for demand from Europeans, Americans, Asians etc?

    If you watch untrained street dancers in Cuba then they are not going to look identical to what is taught in typical 'Cuban salsa' classes, so why would typical Puerto Rican style salsa classes be any different. There's a split between what happens in the salsa industry and what happens at street level, with both sides having a large influence on each other.

    If you look at today's Puerto Rican salsa dancers who are instructors their style is more technical and more appropriate to satisfying the demands of people on the salsa scene. The same can be said of Cuban 'salsa' dancers. It's not necessarily a bad thing as it has given economic opportunities for talented people from poor parts of the world and it has given exposure to music that would otherwise be of little interest to Europeans, Asians etc.

    In the case of today's pro Puerto Rican dancers: they are closer to the salsa scene than the dancers in the video discussed above, but they still definitely have a PR flavour that is missing from today's NY salsa.

    Btw what did you think of the 2nd video I posted? It also has a lot more in common with casino than today's NY style, but it definitely has a very NY flavour.
  13. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    It is an old mambo style step from the 40s that was called "swing " mambo, and your description of feet were correct..
    There is also a linear version of swing mambo done solo by each partner. That has long since gone from view
    MAMBO_CEC, DJ Yuca and vit like this.
  14. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Yeah ... forward part of guapea actually feels a kind of similar like the "push" part in WCS sugar push ...

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