Santo Rico spinning technique?

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by Capibaribe, Feb 6, 2007.

  1. azzey

    azzey El Sabroso de Conguero

    Being an ultra-light leader (most of the time) I just prefer followers who are equally light. Not that I don't power lead or appreciate good followers and required high tension styles, it's just a preference I was commenting on, which has little to do with what they follow or how we (as leaders) lead it.
     
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  2. azzey

    azzey El Sabroso de Conguero

    Doh! Maybe that's it! I'm just lazy too. LOL.

    Not danced with her but I did dance with a lovely light follower on Sunday night at BritSalsaFest who had broken her right arm on the Friday night dancing. Bit of challenge doing all moves with only one arm leads! She was cute too.. ;)
     
  3. fpmanfra

    fpmanfra Changui

    SR Spinning

    Lara is spot-on about SR's spin methods. The leads are supposed to do most of the work, but follows do need to know how to pivot, spot, maintain same level, spin on one foot, keep knees together, and hold their breathe but exhale while spinning. Sounds complicated, right? Well, it is. LOL. But if you have a good lead who gives you a perfect prep and you have all the elements you need, you're set to go.



     
  4. barrefly

    barrefly Nuevo Ritmo

    BaSo seems to teach spinning with bent legs. For just spinning, it looks very stylish (in salsa). However, when you are spinning on one leg, (other leg in passe,attitude etc.) you're going to have to have a straighter leg. youtube.com/watch?v=NKvcJi7yZO8
    Head tilts and torso arch look great while spinning with bent legs, but is a son of a gun to perfect. I just saw Alien Rameriz do it today....pure perfection.
    Bent legs also make it more difficult for traveling turns...esp. linear.

    Also, you will be paddling for continuous spinning. (Usually after the 2-4 turn).

    Added: When I was in Miami a few months ago, I saw a girl do the fastest spinning I have ever seen. However, because of the technique she had to use in her spotting, it looked a bit coarse.
    She was also the best lead I have ever seen in my life, as well. She lead better than most guys.
     
  5. barrefly

    barrefly Nuevo Ritmo

    I wonder if it's because of all that styling they do..or the extreme bent legs, or improper paddling. I am told that my daughter is like butter to turn...but perhaps isn't that much to look at, like the N.Y. girls.
     
  6. opm1s6

    opm1s6 Sabor Ambassador

    The girls are able to go multibars on one foot with their knees bent. The reasoning for it is that a straighter leg is harder to balance on. The bend is not severe. The prep is big, and the initial torque out of the pivot is all that is really needed. From then on in, it's all the guy. It's the same at baila society, and definitely, if not more extreme at Yamulee. She handles her balance, we supply the power and do minimal helping to balance. There are a lot of girls that when they move from practicing generating the torque on their own, to generating it with a guy, over torque on every rotation. It's really annoying to lead a girl who torques constantly, and you feel like you are always catching up.
     
  7. PielCanela

    PielCanela Sabor Ambassador

    I know this is quite late but i just pick this up ..... sweavo !!! quadruple touch&go !!! wonderful
     
  8. sweavo

    sweavo Maestro 'Guaguanco' Rodríguez

    Heheh! Well I was working with quality materials...
     
  9. PielCanela

    PielCanela Sabor Ambassador

    slighted bend legs is a technique that seems to be universal here in NYC, and as I far as I know, of any other instructor I can think of. (does any one know of any salsa teacher that advocates straight leg?)

    Regarding Baila Society technique, actually the lady provides a lot of the power. The man preps, and then provides guidance, but otherwise the power comes from the lady. That is the reason they are so light to spin.

    Once you reach upper 4s,5s, or more spins however the power of the guy takes over, and the ladies focus on super strong core, while still providing some momentum. Baso also uses a drill technique called phantom lead, in which the guys provides absolutely no power, we simply prep bring our hands/fingers up, as if we are doing a regular spin but then we just leave our hands/finger there, while the lady spins doubles, triples, and a paddling bar and half, all on her own power.

    All the professional team Baso ladies can be spun between 70 to 110 within one minute, switching directions every 30 or 40 spins, so doing triples, or a bar and a half becomes very simple.

    Yamulee advocates a very different approach, the lady focus on staying as strong as possible and providing no momentum whatsoever. The man provides all the power, this makes for not so light follow in comparison, but they are incredible responsible to changes in the lead even while being spun, which allows them to do complex and exciting things in their choreography.

    Santo Rico, I have taken a couple of class there but opm1s6 is quite knowledgeable on their technique, so I would refer to him for any insights. By dancing socially with their dancers, or working in performances with a previous dancer of SR. My experience does mirror the comments opm1s6 made regarding the fact that the men supply the power for the spins. In that sense Yamulle and Santo Rico share strong similarities in their technique.

    Ah, and interesting technique that I noticed while taking a spinning class in Yamulee was the fact that the teacher was emphasizing providing momentum from your midsection, upper legs, stomach, core. (bottom – to top) Which is different from other schools where there is an emphasis in the upper body and core providing the momentum ( top –to bottom).

    For the leads take note: Regardless how many spins a follow theoretically is able to do, if your lead is not providing her “spinning needs” you wont get the best of her. I used to get frustrated seeing how a guy would spin a perfect quadruple and then I would dance with the same lady and would fail after 2.

    Learning how to judge what type of lead a follow needs is imperative for a leader, If you learn a single way of spinning a lady, you minimize the change of success to the pool of ladies who also happen to spin your way. So you might as well work on it, and try to accommodate the lady. A CBL to a single spin will give you all the information you need if you know what to look for. In here in NYC we are lucky because we can go take classes all over and learn all the techniques that are out there so we can cater to everyone in the dance floor. However within schools and salsa scene, every lady will have subtle difererences in how to they spin, focusing on complementing those differences will give you great material to work on.
     
  10. babybarbarella

    babybarbarella Son Montuno

    Thank you so much for you post. It was really informative.

    As for the above quote, I am glad that a leader is of the opinion that he has some responsibility for the outcome of spins. I have heard many guys in my scene tell women who spin very well with other leads that it was purely their fault when a spin doesn't work properly.
     
  11. SnowDancer

    SnowDancer Clave Commander

    Yow. I can't imagine assigning blame on the dance floor.
     
  12. opm1s6

    opm1s6 Sabor Ambassador

    crucial! it's drilled into the guys at SR that you absolutely have to back step, use the floor to help you gain strength into the spins and positioning relative to the girl when you prep is important. Then again I'm not going to go into the finesse of leading spins. I've written about a lot of it before and it would take me hours to go through.

    My stance on girls giving their own power is this. I don't mind as long as the girls have control of how much they give. Some girls just over torque constantly through every spin and it makes for very choppy spinning and i'm always having to catch up to them, through the revolutions. Now I'm an assertive lead, who above all else wants to make sure she knows what I want, when I want it and how I want it. If my spinning lead is trailing her path, then there is something wrong. A light follow is able to control her rotations and apply just the right amount to make each one light, but not torque to the point where the guy isn't leading you any longer. It still all starts with the prep. If the prep is strong and consistent then three spins becomes a joke. with those Baso girls, it also helps that they're all 80 pound little asian girls that I could fit in my pocket. I tower over all of them, and sometimes I feel like I need to be especially careful with them, even though they could probably kick my butt.

    speaking of which where's my ahtoy video! i'll be there on wednesday filming for MamboNYC
     
  13. PielCanela

    PielCanela Sabor Ambassador

    :) hey we do have girls from all over you know, Latinas, Caucasian, African, we are United Nations there, lol :)

    Your video is comming, i need to buy a new card reader, this darn technology keeps changing.

    See you wednesday :) ha i will even hold the camera for you while you dance with our high profile student :)
     
  14. desconocida

    desconocida Descarga

    Thanks guys, there're actually some really interesting insights for a follower in this topic! Especially taking apart the nuances between the different NY schools - I wasn't aware there was a significant difference in their spinning technique except for the touch-and-go vs. spinning-on-one-foot advocates.
    I'm wondering whether you could sum up what the schools tell on the free (left in most cases) arm of the follower? Looking at different dancers I've noticed that there seem to be varieties as well: some girls hold their left arm horizontally, pretty far away from their chest while others have their elbow closer to their body, beneath their wrist. Would you rather say it's personal preference or is it also part of different school's technique?

    And like in every great discussion there're also some really entertaining parts - OPM, could you go more into detail about this one please? :)))
     
  15. MacMoto

    MacMoto Administrator Staff Member

    Why?

    When I was at the LA congress last year, I noticed many girls dancing on straight legs, which I remember well because it's such an unfamiliar look to me. I guess there must be teachers who teach that style, or some high-profile performers dance straight legged and people are copying it. I'm more familiar with the bent lengs technique, both in the UK and Japan.
     
  16. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'El Diferente' Canales

    Hmm..sounds more like demanding to me :D
     
  17. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'El Diferente' Canales

    On question of straight legs and bend knees, how much bend are we talking about ? Some girls bend their knees when they prep/spin so much that I immediately will feel their height level lowering. Though there are girls who will spin fine with bend knees, if I can feel their height level lowering that feels odd. Plus I think it takes away from efficiency of executing spins. I know ballerinas spin on straight legs, however I instinctive feel that straight legs are prone to introducing instability.

    I am aware that SR technique is, that of power spin (guys powers the spin). Does it work? Yes. Is it comfortable to all the followers? No. Do followers need to have good core, balance and able to control their spin? Yes. Do leaders need to be able to lead multiple spins of 2 or more irrespective of how much power follower provides? Yes. If the follower is able to maintain her balance and leader is able to turn her without putting her off-balance, all that matters is ability to control by both. That is irrespective of lead/follow spin techniques.

    For solo spins, while there are few different ways/techniques that work, there has to be one which gives you most benefit with minimum effort. Someone who's an expert in kinesiology should perhaps study it and come out with recommendation on which technique is most efficient.
     
  18. opm1s6

    opm1s6 Sabor Ambassador

    From my experience I've found nothing but girls tell me they prefer the way I spin to other guys and in particular, I've heard for a year now, that girls prefer the solid finger in their cupped hand as opposed to twirly finger caused by a rotating wrist. That has been universal amongst follows I've talked to in NYC, not sure how other follows in other cities find it. I've also had some girls from abroad who also started to prefer the C shaped prep as opposed to the swinging type they get at home. They said that they felt that they were better lead into a prep, instead of having to rely on themselves to go into a prepped position, and thus better ready for the number of spins that will be lead, based on how big assertively the prep is done, as if the guy has already decided how many to give and unconsciously (maybe consciously) adjusts the prep in accordance.
     
  19. jlon2

    jlon2 Son Montuno

    opm1s6 is on the money. SantoRico spinning, for those who have achieved proficiency in it, equals faster, tighter, cleaner and more powerful. I get nothing but raves about my spinning lead as I'm able to get about 5 to 7 spins by the count of 5.

    Spotting is another issue. SR girls are not taught to spot on every turn as it slows you down. As most of the girls tell me, "after 3 spins what's the point?" There was a girl from abroad in class recently who was light as a feather but slooooow in her spinning. It was due to her spotting on every turn.

    As op stated above, the biggest hindrance I see on the dance floor to fast and clean spins is the huge rotating wrist and excessive finger motions by the lead.
     
  20. opm1s6

    opm1s6 Sabor Ambassador

    ehhh I think that's still up in the air. There are plenty of girls from European teams, Emily Alabi is another example, as is Shani, who all spot on every rotation and are able to get the velocity. It's a matter of practice. There's a woman here in NYC named Rene who spins like the wind, and she continuously spot. With everything, I think it's possible, it's just a matter of practice.

    When they first teach the girls to spin on their own, they do hammer away at the importance of spotting, it's just that when they start talking about multi-bar spinning that i've heard them say to spot every other rotation. Not being a follow I don't know what they should do, but I'd prefer to see them continuously work towards achieving Emily Alabi's proficiency. There's no reason that with practice that they wouldn't be able to spot and have it not interfere the lead even at the ludicrous speeds. Maybe I'm off, but it's got to be possible
     

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