Salsa open diary

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by MacMoto, Jul 30, 2011.

  1. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    NO one ??

    Depends upon whom I may be teaching , or dancing with
  2. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    You may be exception :) But honestly other than FM, who only touched upon it in a tangential way, I would say no one. Are there good dancers who do that - yes! But I have yet to see a salsa instructor who can explain and demonstrate how some can break out of the six step basic structure of basic salsa step. I am not counting shines in that. Yes, people get creative with shines and footwork, but let's compare to dancing apart in say salsa and WCS. Salsa dancers may think they are reflecting the shines or footwork of their partners and playing with each other when apart, it is nothing compared to what they do in the WCS. To an unbiased onlooker, WCS dancers will always appear more playful than salsa dancers when dancing apart.

    I like dancing salsa and I think it is (can be) musical. I just think a lot of teachers simply don't give right tools to the students early on. Most salsa dancers tend to discover musicality in their dancing on their own. In WCS on the other hand, I find that many are displaying what I called "canned" musicality.

    *my comments are only limited to linear/slot/ny/la/pr style.
  3. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    I think I get what you are saying. It is what I termed as "canned" musicality in my previous post. You can almost predict what they will do! Many WCS before gaining proficiency, will try to do dance in way that they think reflects the music but in a very sloppy way. They will have a set of movements, that when the certain section of music comes, they will perform. Those who have been dancing long and have decent technique usually lack imagination to break out of that "canned" music. But over all, I still find that their technique is better than that of salsa people (at the same level).
  4. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Here is very good article about one dimensional musicality:

    "It matched the music, but it was like everything was pre-programmed. I could have been dancing with a robot."
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  5. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    I actually had in mind other thing (although also related) - that part of the dancers work too hard on musicality and not enough on quality of the dancing/movement and that dance is sloppy although musical . It's hard for me to enjoy if my partner expect me to help her stability or drag her along the floor or turn her into every turn while she is trying to express her musicality. Also, I don't like terry's type of expressing musicality in a way he changes direction of the follower once per second either

    I'm however aware of problems with that "canned" musicality as well (though probably more related to tango and kizomba than salsa due to the nature of the dance), but I'm not sure much can be done here. Every person is different and has different emotions about the same piece of music, so it's quite possible that we will feel expression of our partner as fake/canned even if it's as real for him/her as our for us, just because it is different. Maybe that probability is even higher if the partner is technically better - there is a kind of feeling of inferiority, so we can fell him/her as artificial/ballroomy/etc ... it's again complex subject, but to put it simple, with some people we have good chemistry and with most other it's average or bad, and nothing can be done here. Structured social dances actually help here, because there is a kind of agreement how to express particular music with dancing ... but no, then it's studio dancing, it's ballroom, it's not "street", there is no creativity etc ... so the result is, for instance in my venue, that we have 4-5 salsa on1 instructors, 3-4 salsa on2 instructors, 4-5 kizomba instructors, 2-3 wcs instructors, 2-3 zouk instructors, every one of them selling considerably different kind of dancing within genre, so people from different groups are mostly not able to have satisfactory dancing with each other to start with, not to mention adding own "personal" style/creativity on top of it ...

    So however you turn it, there is no ideal approach in social dancing, but I absolutely don't agree that structure in dancing is bad, in addition that I don't agree that kizomba, wcs, tango have no structure. They have the structure, just it's not aligned on bars of the music but you are free to movee the boundaries of the moves between the bars. That difference is not as big as it may look like. And in BR we also have dances of both kind (some are aligned on bars, some are not)
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  6. Al Israel

    Al Israel Tumbao

    I have been to Kizomba parties on three continents, so I have to disagree...
    wol and vit like this.
  7. jaybean2000

    jaybean2000 Changui

    I go to Zurich for good dancing. It is very wonderful be around so many people so happy to dance. I cannot stay whole weekend but one day hope come back.
  8. azana

    azana Super Moderator Staff Member

    What's with the bright red shoes, guys? I counted three pairs on Saturday night. Granted I had a fabulous dance with one of these pairs to start the night :)
  9. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Were you wearing them? :D
  10. azana

    azana Super Moderator Staff Member

    A very sweet guy came up to me tonight and asked "Would you like to do salsa?"

    Later on we did bachata.
  11. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    You danced salsa and bachata or only bachata ? :)
  12. azana

    azana Super Moderator Staff Member

    We do salsa and we do bachata
  13. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    Just out of curiosity, you mean the guy is in general "sweet" or the way he asked you was sweet? Because if it is the latter then I wonder what the others do to ask you to dance. Just pull you to the dance floor?
    Offbeat likes this.
  14. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    The 3 paras ,are consistent with the lack of dance education .
    Ya cant teach, what ya don't know !

    By the way, I can assure you empirically, I'm not the only one using methods, to achieve changes .
    Even tho the concepts are more advanced, I do explain to my beginners , how the basic format is very flexible .

    The problems start, ( as to not understanding ) HOW 90% of "teachers ?", count the basic, and NEVER change .
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  15. jaybean2000

    jaybean2000 Changui

    I dance so much in 7 days that I stay home today and no work. I never did that before. I feel dance start to take my life over.
  16. azana

    azana Super Moderator Staff Member

    I had to laugh last Saturday I arrived the lady taking the money pulled me aside and announced "I have good news for you". She turned to serve the people behind me as I wondered "Huh? Does she even know me?" Apart from the fact that I always make sure I have the correct change to make it easier for her I didn't think I was especially noticeable. She turned back to me and told me with a big smile: "There are no performances tonight! It's you and one other lady I know don't like them." I burst out laughing. So she'd noticed I leave the dance hall when the performances (sometimes for up to 45 minutes) start, sit on the couch in the entrance area and pull out a copy of the The Economist to read? On the one hand I don't even try to be discreet; on the other, there are quite a few of us who do the same. Occasionally they can be good, if for example Sharon Pakir or Juan Carlos Ospina decides to perform, but mostly they merely inflate egos, consolidate cliques and seek attention. When I'm able to get out, I dislike dance time being lost. Actually, I'd rather watch Sharon social dance, where her understated musicality is simply sublime.

    So I was in a good mood all night and probably carrying a large smile. As soon as my most regular lead came over, I announced the good news to him and he started cheering as well :). I didn't have to ask for a single dance that night, which is very rare for me outside of Japan. It was a fantastic night out (it's all relative - this is equivalent to a less than mediocre night somewhere like Los Angeles or Tokyo, but I'll take it :)).

    This weekend I made myself go out on the Sunday (a hit and miss party, but one I can only attend if I'm not working on the Monday). It can become more of a Latin nightclub than a salsa social, depending on the crowd and what the DJ decides to play between dance sets. This night it was full of Cuban and also Cali-style leads, going nuts. They tended to dance far faster than the song suggested, but were enjoying themsleves immensely and displaying a passion for salsa I don't often see at the other party, where it's more about establishing status and looking cool for a number of the patrons. At one stage the band was starting a song when the drummer suddenly said something to the saxophonist, who leaned over and passed on the message to the singer, who then consulted the musician who was clearly the band leader (I was wondering if these Chinese whispers would lead to the original message being passed on properly...) They then launched into the opening bars of 'No le pegue a la negra' and the crowd just went insane, even though it's in their regular playlist. I guess there were several Colombians there last night...Fortunately I was dancing with one of my favorite, beautifully musical local leads, although unfortunately we were in the darkest and most slippery corner of the room, as it must have been a 25 minute version of the song...

    The DJ was playing reggaeton between sets, and after the band announced it was their last set and then reggaeton came back on, there was a mass walkout (it was only about 11:40pm; usually there's a third set) including myself; hehehehe take that if you don't play salsa! :p
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
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  17. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    We have three good (all Mambo) socials in a row on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. That hasn't happened in ages! The music is guaranteed to be good, since we have good DJs. The question is if any of the old timers will show up and which one to attend. Because there is also USA Tango championship in the town and 4 days of very good dancing at the same time!
  18. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura ¬°WEPA!

    Big decision, big life change: after almost 13 years in the US, I am moving back to Europe this summer!

    Exact long-term location not decided yet, and won't be until later, but Spain is at the top of my list. :)

    I'll have a packed travel schedule before I take off for Europe :) After my graduation from the Harvard School of Public Health at the end of May, I will go to: Puerto Rico, New Orleans, Charleston (graduation trip with my parents :) ); DC Congress; New York for 2 weeks -- to catch up with friends and dance every single night :) ; Cuba for 3 weeks -- including spending my birthday there for the first time :) ; and then a few weeks in the Dominican Republic (to dance some of that delicious traditional bachata :) ), Costa Rica, and the Amazon. I want to do volunteer work with one of the Amazon tribes for a few weeks, because I love being in the Amazon, and living with a local community and doing volunteer work there has been a dream of mine ever since I first had the fortune of going to the Amazon 4 years ago (not to mention it costs the same to spend a month with a local community as 3 days at a tourist lodge).

    Cheers to new beginnings, new (salsa) adventures, and new (salsa) friends!
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
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  19. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    That's kind of a shock, to me..

    First, congrats on your life style change. I wonder, will time agree with your choice,

    I made a similar decision to move back to the UK, but for several reasons NOT as noble as yours.
    It took a long time for me to get used, to not seeing sunshine everyday ( as I did in Fla. ) .
    And, I think Spain will be a very good choice . Buena suerte..
    Sabrosura likes this.
  20. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura ¬°WEPA!

    Thanks! I'll come visit you, if I'm in Spain I will be very close ;) (And yep I can understand why it is a shock.)

    I didn't actually say anything about my reasons so the "noble" assumption is unwarranted. :p The decision is very much for personal reasons: my family is in Europe (and I don't want to have them shuffle back and forth across the ocean to see me for the rest of their life, especially once there are grandkids), I prefer European culture and interpersonal connection style (most of my non-salsa, non-Latin friends in the US are internationals rather than Americans), better work-life balance, a lot more travel opportunities when you're based in Europe (though I love the 3.5 hour flights to Cuba and the DR from New York, the possibility of "let's take a quick train ride or a quick flight and spend the weekend in Paris or Rome" is lovely -- plus the flights to Cuba/DR from Spain aren't that bad either :D ). Not saying it's all golden, of course -- there are certain advantages to living in the US (in my case, it would be NYC, I wouldn't live anywhere else if I stayed in the US), but I have put everything in my personal balance, and it leaned heavily towards Europe, so both my heart and my brain are in agreement that, at this point in my life, it is the right decision. And that's not to say I won't end up in NYC again at some point, life is full of surprises, and I have always welcomed change :)

    Oh and, hellooooo, all you European congresses :dancingbanana:
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
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