Salsa life - men vs women

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by Offbeat, Oct 14, 2017.

  1. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    If and when, they locate a well trained Prof. IT really is no great secret ( tho it appears to be ! ), that, most are not told that the body is the engine that drives the train, NOT the arms/hands .
    Jag75 and Chris_Yannick like this.
  2. LarsM

    LarsM Nuevo Ritmo

    I also learned through private lessons, not only social dancing.

    Edit: didn't see terence's post. What he said.
  3. MrR

    MrR Son Montuno

    The "well trained prof" is a constant problem.
    We have no well trained profs in my area (150km radius!)

    Ballroom teachers are teaching the stiff ballroom frame etc.
    Fitness and Solo Dance teachers teach solo movement.
    Being Latino is no qualification, although half of our teachers has that as their only one.
    Show dancers are about looking good, not about making your partner feel good. Actually seasoned show dancers in average have been my worst experience, as they know and care the least, what their (social dancing) students actually need.

    The best reachable is a trained physiotherapist with second job dance teacher. She actually is good in telling how the body moves and an experienced dancer with the skill to explain even little details. In workshops she takes care for these details instead of simply bringing in pattern.
    But 2 hours of driving ...

    Training each other is our only option.

    Of course larger cities have a better supply of teachers.
    You'd think.
    Main qualifications:
    Charisma, promotion skills, looks, knowing many Salsa songs, knowing many patterns, show dancing skills, skin color (something exotic) ...
    Teaching skills ?
    Social dancing skills ?
    Knowledge about the functions of the body ?
    Knowledge about the lead-follow system ?
    Fluent in German (or at least English) ?
    forget it ...

    Even when inviting teachers for workshops this counts. The one I mentioned above wasn't acceptable for our local promoters. Why? She has 3 major "flaws":
    She doesn't do show dancing at all.
    She is white. I mean really Nordic white.
    She is a woman!

    2 of these would be acceptable, but all three at the same time is a no go.
    Smejmoon likes this.
  4. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    I have read about that research. You are right. Anyone before 65 should really stop thinking themselves as old.
    SnowDancer likes this.
  5. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Absolutely love love these clips :)

  6. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Hey hey now!! :D

    My stats are always well researched backed by double blind studies with low p–curve that have been successfully replicated by others :rofl::dancingbanana:
    Smejmoon, Aurel and MAMBO_CEC like this.
  7. SalsaGipsy

    SalsaGipsy Capitán Del Estilo

    Hmmm, I understand the frustration of the leaders but asking all followers to correct you in order to learn is really not such a great idea. For several reasons.

    First of all most followers actually have no idea how leading works and also how it should feel. As long as you are not hurting them and your message gets across, they often cannot give you much useful feedback, they just go with the flow.

    Followers differ a lot in their experience, preferences, physical state, etc. You can easily get contradicting advice.

    Also those who want the feedback are in a minority. You cannot expect the followers to start offering unsolicited advice on the dance floor when the probability is it will not be well accepted.

    Finally, they don't owe this to you. They are there to have fun, not to educate the leaders. It is your job to find a way to improve. If you don't and if they don't enjoy dancing with you, there will be other leaders available. It works both ways, of course, leaders don't have to educate the followers, it's not their job.

    One exception: if you are really hurting them, then they might let you know. I know I would. But that is for real physical pain not just discomfort. And I don't think this applies to any of you.

    So, what can you do? Ask a professional. What if those are not available/qualified/whatever?

    Choose a group of higher-level followers you trust and ask them for feedback. Take whatever they tell you with a huuuge grain of salt and try to find the bits of useful information in between the politeness, ignorance and personal preferences.

    Find a couple of practice partners you can train with and try your moves on. The problems here are well-known but it can help up to a point.

    But, most importantly, try following. It's the closest thing to finding out what your lead feels like.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
    Jag75, Smejmoon, SnowDancer and 4 others like this.
  8. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Thanks for writing this! It makes a very important point. Especially for the beginners and new comers who may read the thread later.

    Followers can’t correct the leaders. Leaders can’t correct the followers. They can only tell each other what is not working or not feeling right. That could be due to either the leader or follower or both.

    Which goes to the point made several times before on SF. Try the opposite role. If nothing else to understand how it feels and the mistakes made by the leader. As a leader I could immediately notice the mistakes being made by other leaders when following them.
    LarsM likes this.
  9. SnowDancer

    SnowDancer Clave Commander

    Er... what about after 65?
  10. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

    After 65+ you will realize that you are still young....and 65+ is just a number...:)
    I heard a very good expression..." we are people we are not numbers.":dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana:
    Offbeat and SnowDancer like this.
  11. SnowDancer

    SnowDancer Clave Commander

    Don't get too down on your country's salsa teachers; I think it's like this pretty much everywhere. Even in NY, the only places I've gotten lead/follow technique were at BaSo and Santo Rico, and that's because they teach in small groups where you get individual attention. There are a couple local instructors in my city who sometimes give advice, but it's also in a small class setting. I'd say that privates are probably the best way to improve technique.

    OTOH, I've been to several tango instructors, and they always emphasize technique, even in classes with close to 100 people.
  12. SnowDancer

    SnowDancer Clave Commander

    Dance keeps you young. And the low lights at salsa clubs keep you looking young. :cool:
    1 Improbable Salsero likes this.
  13. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

    In my opinion to get to the point when you are 100 or even 90 is a big privilege. We have to respect ourselves and people who can reach this point. It is cool. I like centenarians. We can learn from them a lot.
  14. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

    Lights are not important when you see a person who lives in harmony with himself/herself. Personality is much more important than wrinkles. :) Do not be afraid who you are. Be yourself, enjoy the life and music because you never know when you have to go...
    LarsM, Smejmoon and SnowDancer like this.
  15. sunsoul

    sunsoul Shine Officer

    Go to the bar.. go to the cloakroom.. go to bed.
  16. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    I don’t think we still figured out why salsa has higher turnover compared to other dances. I am not sure since I haven’t been doing swing for very long but there too there are a lot of women (and men) from the higher age brackets compared to salsa.
  17. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    Don't you stop worrying about age and just enjoy being alive at one point? :D
  18. Jag75

    Jag75 Shine Officer

    You and Chris clearly didn’t have very good instructors - leading and following technique should be taught in group classes.
  19. Jag75

    Jag75 Shine Officer

    Your local promoters are pretty clueless.
    MrR likes this.
  20. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Looks like the bad instructors issue isn't just in Germany. Tonight at the Brussels congress in five hours of dancing I can count on one hand the leads who did NOT use the thumb grip (and other grip variations that I didn't even know existed). And I don't mean just occasional thumb, I mean during turns and strongly enough that I was worried about my shoulder during turns those entire dances. I tried to tell/show a few but quickly got tired of it, mostly because they generally looked at me puzzled (there was language barrier too :p ) and when I pointed to my shoulder, they went " sick shoulder?" In the end I just avoided those who did it the worst and considered myself lucky if they didn't grip *too* hard. It wasn't just beginners either, it was the intermediate-advanced dancers too (not just from Belgium, they were from different countries). Last night was much better so maybe tonight was an off night, but still, it's pretty evident no one is mentioning the no-thumb rule to these guys in their classes. I asked a dancer who was more experienced and didn't use the thumb about it, and he said "instructors don't need to teach this, guys can just figure it out themselves not to use the thumb, like I did." :rolleyes: Well Clearly this "figuring out by themselves" ain't happening. And if a lot of instructors think like him, then clearly "Houston, we have a problem"...

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