Salsa from Cuba

Discussion in 'Salsa Music' started by timberamayor, Apr 3, 2015.

  1. timberamayor

    timberamayor Maestro 'El Diferente' Canales

    I don't think he's related to Elio. I've never heard him mentioned in terms of that Revé family, just Elio, Elito and Oderquis. But who knows? This is the most I've found written about him. Doesn't mention the other Revé family. It doesn't look like he really had a band. Some of these people were studio musicians, so they probably took some of Andrés best songs and did a CD of them.
    Sergio Noroña Piano (most famous for playing with Paulo FG perhaps)
    Arnaldo Jiménez Bajo (ex-Orquesta Revé now Van Van)
    Arián Chacón Congas (current Orquesta Revé)

    It's all a bit confusing with the names because there is(was) also a release a few years back by Sama y El Expreso de Oriente. I don't know if that was a band take over or just name stealing or what. They did a number of covers and that got them some bad will.

    And Aisar Hernandez was Orquesta Revé's musical director for 10 years before starting his band El Expresso de Cuba. I don't think he will take much of the Revé sound with him. There are so many Revé spin-off bands. This hasn't been updated since 2001.

    MAMBO_CEC likes this.
  2. khabibul35

    khabibul35 Tumbao

    Interesting, I admit that it's hard and often arbitrary to categorize timba and its precursors but this chart has a couple of things I might change.

    For example, it considers Adalberto Alvarez as a precursor to timba where as I'd place his later stuff is squarely in the timba category. Dan Den is another that I think would tip more towards timba than not. Then again, who knows. Just curious about others' opinions on this.
  3. timberamayor

    timberamayor Maestro 'El Diferente' Canales

    With Adalberto I think it depends on the CD. For me, Jugando con candela was his most timba album. Obviously he's not doing traditional son, but I think he's placed there because of his earlier work. He'd really have to be in two places on the map pre-timba and post. I think pretty much all of the existing bands in the diagram can be considered timba today except maybe Irakere, and Maravilla de Florida.
    khabibul35 likes this.
  4. khabibul35

    khabibul35 Tumbao

    I heard Rey Ruiz for the first time at casino event tonight (soundhound helped me ID it). The DJ played several of his tracks and eventually I had to find out who it was that could be so awful. So sad to find out this was a Cuban artist. Awful, awful music in my opinion.

  5. timberamayor

    timberamayor Maestro 'El Diferente' Canales

    Well he's lived in Miami for ages so that is really where his music is from. Miami music by Cubans isn't the same as music made in Cuba. I used to be into Rey Ruiz when I first started dancing and was listening to salsa romantica: Victor Manuelle, Rey Ruiz, Jerry Rivera, Marc Anthony, Gilberto Santa Rosa :)
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  6. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    And many Cubanos I know, would like this.. The great thing about the genre, is, there's something to suit all tastes .
  7. khabibul35

    khabibul35 Tumbao

    Agreed, I don't mind it if DJs at LA style/on1 events play this kind of stuff - it's what the people came for. But when I go to a "Cuba" party, I don't expect this. And when I was looking him up at home, I was pretty shocked to find out Rey Ruiz is Cuban.
    timberamayor likes this.
  8. salsera_alemana

    salsera_alemana Nuevo Ritmo

    I don't know what type of salsa Rey Ruíz sang in Cuba before he defected to the US but I will never forget how excited I was in 1993 in the Orange Bowl in Miami (concert event 1 week before the Calle Ocho festival) when he performed his first big hit "No me acostumbro". When he was announced, all the women (99.9% Latinas) in that stadium were screaming... And then he came all dressed in black with a bright yellow jacket on. It was phantastic!!! And after that came Jon Secada (another newcomer in 1993)...with all the women in that stadium screaming again! And Willy Chirino was "el rey de la calle ocho" that year performing "Medias Negras", another one of my favorite 1993 songs... Yeah, reminiscing... :)

    All three of them are Cuban, by the way. and all were born in Cuba. Willy Chirino was sent to the US as a child by his parents with the "operation Peter Pan".

    Rey Ruíz is a great showman and his concerts are wonderful! I also like Willy Chirino's music. Very nice to dance to.
    Last edited: May 23, 2016
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  9. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Shortly after that, he came to Tampa...
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  10. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    Considering salsa romántica is and has been very popular with Cubans (more so I suspect than salsa dura was back its heyday), plus is obviously rooted in Afro-Cuban music, the surprise is that it's not played more at 'Cuban' events. Not all Cubans (or casineros) want timbatón all night.
  11. timberamayor

    timberamayor Maestro 'El Diferente' Canales

    Cuban in Cuba are really like romantica. It's always funny to see big muscle-bound tattooed guys with gold teeth and gold chains singing blissfully along with A puro dolor :)
  12. khabibul35

    khabibul35 Tumbao

    I don't know what you're getting at here. In terms of popularity on the island, Cubaton/Timbaton > Salsa Romantica, and it's not even close. And while I don't like either, I would actually prefer Timbaton to Romantica because I find Rey Ruiz songs completely undanceable, whereas Timbaton is simplistic, it's at least energetic.

    However, the real point is that when people go to "Noche Cubana" events, they expect to have tunes that one could dance casino to and this kind of music doesn't cut it. Yes, Timbaton and Rey Ruiz are Cuban in the technical sense, but it's not what people expect. It would be like if I advertised a mambo event and then played Beny More tunes - I'd get off on a technicality while missing the point since it's not what people want.

    Anyway, I'm still relatively new in Zurich, so I'm still learning who plays what, but I did notice something: most of the best dancers who I've seen in weeks past, were notably absent this time, and while I'm hardly in that top class class, I figured out quite quickly what was going on and left after 45 mins. This DJ is clearly out of place in this scene and now I know better. Ironically, it is the salsa romantica junkies (On1 LA-style) who would have loved this event, but they never go to Noche Cubana since they expect casino here.
    Last edited: May 23, 2016
  13. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    Well I'd be happy - mambo is my favourite music and Beny Moré is one of my all time favourite artists. And I doubt other mambo fans / dancers would complain, if you played the right Beny Moré tunes. (Obviously most people don't want to hear a DJ play loads of tunes by any one artist, whoever it is.)

    As for the rest of your post - how can romántica not be suitable for casino, when casino is how Cubans dance to salsa and salsa romántica is what so many Cubans love? Maybe there is something fundamentally wrong with the European conception of casino?
    salsera_alemana likes this.
  14. salsera_alemana

    salsera_alemana Nuevo Ritmo

    Here is how he looked in 1993 when he came out with "No me acostumbro" (in a yellow jacket :kiss:):

    Que papi chulo! Pure eye candy! Not surprising that all the women in the Latino world went crazy about him!
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  15. khabibul35

    khabibul35 Tumbao

    1) Maybe I'm wrong, but I imagine most dancers these days think of music like this the are going to a "Mambo night":

    If you played this, it would not be "the right" tune:

    It's the same principle. Rey Ruiz isn't "the right" kind of Cuban music as far as most casineros would be concerned. I've never heard any casinero ever come off the floor raving about tunes like Rey Ruiz's.

    The salseros who have been posting have been raving about it, and that's great as far as I'm concerned. I just think the DJ played the song at the wrong event, since we can see that linear dancers loved this but timberamayor and I would find it odd to dance to.

    2) Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't seen Cubans dance casino to romantica during my travels. I've seen them jam to romantica in the streets and in the collectivos while riding around town, but I've yet to see it in partner dance. This could be due to small sample size, as I'm not as well traveled in Cuba as others in this forum. Cubans off the island are a different question, but even then, I don't see too many opting for the romantica room at events that feature both a Cuban room and a romantica alternative.

    I'm too ignorant on the question to speak with any authority, but I suspect you misunderstand the appeal of romantica to Cubans and the role it has in social dance. It's not simply just another type of music to which you can dance to as in linear. However, I think that's a question better left for others to address.
    Last edited: May 23, 2016

    MAMBO_CEC Sabor Ambassador

    I can't lie, I love this song!! Romantica gold standard.
  17. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    The 1st video sounds like salsa dura - what's the tune? I thought it was El Canario at first but now I don't. Salsa dura is perfect for on2, but that doesn't mean it is mambo. It's true most salsa dancers wouldn't know the difference, also another problem is that mambo refers to a dance but it also refers to a whole genre of music, only some of which you can actually mambo to - you could say it also includes the boleros, cha cha chas, guajiras etc that the mambo greats did. I don't know what that Beny Moré track would be classed as, but to dance to it you would need to dance - I don't know. Triple step mambo or cha cha? But if you choose a different Beny Moré track it would for today's on2 dancers. Even if it didn't - I often say that the casino and salsa scenes have a lot in common, so the misuse of the term mambo in the latter doesn't make it ok for the 'authentic Cuban' gang to complain about salsa music that Cubans love. I suppose if an event is advertised as 'pure timba' fair enough - but if it's 'Cuban salsa' why complain when that's what you get? You could argue salsa romántica has just as valid a claim to be Cuban salsa as timba has. The former isn't exactly Cuban but the latter isn't exactly salsa.

    Ironically most casineros pride themselves on authenticity - well romántica is authentic in terms of popularity amongst Cubans. I'm not saying you should like it (I don't like most romántica) or that you should have it at Cuban events - I'm just saying that its presence is actually relevant.
  18. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    Definitely a better track than the one posted earlier.
  19. khabibul35

    khabibul35 Tumbao

    As a DJ, I find it hard to believe that you're putting forward this claim. Selection is a very tricky question - if it were as simple as the flyer, you'd play 1 salsa, 1 timba, 1 bachata and rotate all night long.

    However, when you're asked to play at a place where the DJs play vastly different styles of music and you start spinning "Cuban salsa" because that's your jam, you're totally ignoring the crowd. There's a whole thread about and selection/flow and what this DJ did is exactly the opposite of the right approach - he just didn't get it. All I'm trying to say is, he should stick to line events.

    I really don't understand why you're defending a bad DJ simply because he played songs that technically fall within a definition but are actually much better suited for a completely different crowd. This is where you use your DJing skills isn't it? Shouldn't you be able to pick up on stuff like this if you're in sync with the crowd or at least understand the style of dance that you see on the dance floor and play to it?
  20. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    I wasn't there so I can't say either way whether or not what he did was professional. On the one hand DJs have to give the people what they want; on the other hand a good DJ should provide variety, try to live up to the spirit of the night and be prepared to take risks.

    A lot of people who go to Cuban nights (because that's what they dance and/or that's all that's on offer) have told me that they find it boring hearing timba, timbatón and reggaetón all night. They would much rather have some romántica in the mix - and that would make the night more authentically Cuban in some respects. So even if such tunes don't please hardcore timberos, there are others who would enjoy them. (Introducing them to a night that has never previously featured them would take some skill though.)
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