marketing On2 while making fun of On1

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by granrey, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. dav7802

    dav7802 Son

  2. dav7802

    dav7802 Son

    Don't change the argument. You said a couple doing LA style (QQS) vs NY(ET- QSQ) style. Would look EXACTLY the same. Which they would not!

    If you have a couple dancing on1 and on2 with the same LA style then of course they would look the same because for both they would be doing QQS. But that is not how NY(ET) is meant to be taught or danced.

    If a couple is dancing on2 with the QQS then they are doing a different NY style. @DJ Yuca could go into the different on2 styles better than I ever could.

    If you are referring to a different on2 style then I suggest you mention that first in the future. When someone mentions on2, 99% ppl are referring to or thinking of ET.

    And I would say the majority of ppl dancing on2 dance the ET (QSQ) style or are trying to or think they are. lol
  3. granrey

    granrey Tumbao

    lol where is that quote?

    On1 is doing break steps on beats 1 and 5
    On2 is doing break steps on beats 2 and 6
    and that has nothing to do if you are doing LA or NY.

    NY the "Walk Step" is slow (two bits) and "Rocking Step" is quick (1 bit). plus it starts with a back motion. Regardless if it is On1 or On2.

    LA is exactly as NY but reversed on what I just mentioned above.

    it's not my fault that you guys (or most people) want to call On2 to On2NY only. and On1 to ON1LA only.

    As matter of fact the first On2 I encountered was an On2 LA. we just hold the first bit and break on beat 2 like we do on beat 1.

    Live2dance likes this.
  4. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    My view is yes. We can distinguish dance wise the on1 from ET2. Dancewise! What @grantey is saying would be right dancewise if the comparison was between on1 and P2* (or the mambo that the guy is showing in the second video above - who is this guy by the way?). I say P2* because it would have to be with fwd break on 6 to match what @granrey is saying dancewise. Music wise it is correct that on1 and ET2 use the same bits. So one would ask why are they different. For me the difference is the positioning of the slow versus the body weight position and hip action. Not the timing.

    I will try to keep my view short. Let us take CBL as an example. When you are an on1 lead you do CBL by openning the door to the follow on the count of 3 by stepping to the side with the left foot. On the count of 4 you have different options but for the follow, she has the chance to stretch away from the lead on the slow (i.e. on the counts of 3-4) by settling into the right leg hip. In the ET2 I don't see how that would take place since on the count of 7 the lady is on the left leg for her slow. Hence "by the book" ET2 and on1 should be different in CBL because of the position of the slow action within the steps.
  5. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    That is Power2 and I used to dance it 15 years ago. But if this is the case then there is absolutely no reason why the teacher should claim that on1 and P2 are different in body action. They are fully the same. The only difference is the timing! Makes really no sense!
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  6. dav7802

    dav7802 Son

    Dude, you are arguing in circles.

    Your quote:
    "after participating in many treads on this forum about comparing On1 vs On2. Nobody has presented evidende anything other than separation of 6 bits in music.

    Because you can dance On1 with the On2 flavor and vice versa."

    Again. most ppl associate on2 with ET. So there is a difference as you clearly stated. QQS vs QSQ.

    If you want to dance on1 and on2 the same, more power to you. But saying there is no difference with a caveat is misleading. Perhaps most ppl back in the day danced Power on2 but not now.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
    Dissonant Harmony likes this.
  7. opm1s6

    opm1s6 Sabor Ambassador

    This is painful. Go back to answering my original questions and you'll find your answer. Compare the break step to the relative position of the hold. That's where the differences are. Stop fixating on just the break steps.

    The two are not the same.
    LarsM, dav7802 and MAMBO_CEC like this.
  8. granrey

    granrey Tumbao

    I have made an sketch of a machine to show you the secuence with music. if you turn the salsa music disk clockwise, it will show you the step on each secuence.

    the salsa disk moves clockwise and make the other two disks to move counter clock wise.

    it will show you the step at any given beat on each secuence.

    salsa cipher.JPG
  9. granrey

    granrey Tumbao

    there is no difference on the break Steps, other that they happen on beats 1 and 5 for On1 and beats 2 and 6 for On2.
  10. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Why not create two videos and show :)

    MAMBO_CEC Capitán Del Estilo

    :D:D:confused:Why would they be the same if they happening are on different beats? This has to be one most bizzare threads on SF!! P2 anyone?
    LarsM likes this.
  12. granrey

    granrey Tumbao

    because the breaks still have the same duration (1 beat each).

    you can say the certain instruments play on certain beats. So, breaking on different beats can give you a different feeling while dancing. if those instruments or feelings are important to you.

    the important steps are the rocking step and walk step. These two steps not only happen in different beats on each style but they do have a duration. if that is important to you.

    For me these differences are not that important but I guess for most of you. They are important.
  13. Jag75

    Jag75 Shine Officer

    Granrey is actually right. I’ll come back a bit later with a detailed run-down of why this is. Btw I can dance ET2 and P2 as well as on1.
    granrey likes this.
  14. Jag75

    Jag75 Shine Officer

    Oh and btw even Eddie Torres himself admits that the only real difference between the shift in timing between on1 and on2 is simply a shift by 1 beat. People choose to dance it differently, dancing directly on the Tumbao rhythm. Mathematically, if you dance on the Tumbao rhythm directly (stepping on 8-2-3, 4-6-7 you are actually dancing on the 2-3-4, 6-7-8, which matches the QQS cadence of on1.
    Dissonant Harmony and granrey like this.
  15. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    I see what you are saying now. Yes for most of us the second difference is important. I give you an example. In International BR you have Cha dance 234&1 and Rumba dance 234. Breaks of both are on 2, with rocks at 2-3 and quick step on 4. The dances also have the same feel in terms of body position fwd, Cuban motion, feet action. But they are still different dances even if a lot of dancers in cha turn the 34&1 into 31. In fact, if you speed up rumba you get Power2 (shifting by 1 you get on1) and if you take the 4& out of cha you get ET2. So what am trying to say is that, the presence of a slow action, its position in the timing of steps and weight position as well as how you make use of that slow, do play an important role in defining different styles and even dances.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
    LarsM likes this.
  16. granrey

    granrey Tumbao

    there is no much difference. Colombia and cubana have a better argument as they have a different steps all together.
  17. MrR

    MrR Son Montuno

    And now we know where all this discussion comes from.
    The line dancers lack chocolate cookies and are trying to hide this inferiority behind a wall of camp discussion.
    granrey, Live2dance and dav7802 like this.
  18. dav7802

    dav7802 Son

    Chocolate cookies and brownies. Apples and Oranges. lol
    MAMBO_CEC likes this.
  19. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    Nice! But let me ask you this, assuming you wish to cook something, will it always be the same outcome if you mix the same ingredients in a different order? In most cases no! :) It will probably look completely different.

    Furthermore, cuban "salsa", Colombian and on 1 or P2 are not as different. They are all son based.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  20. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Shut up and dance :D
    Dissonant Harmony and Marisha like this.

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