Managing health problems in dancing?

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by Dalaran1991, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    Hmm... I totally believe science, but one has to look at the research and figure out how much does it explain about very complex phenomenon like metabolism. It does explain a lot but that's still a tiny slice. Over last couple years I've met several doctors who where also researchers and professors. They know a lot, but still they can't give more advice beyond obvious: Do eat often. Don't eat crap. Don't eat too much. Move your body.

    But beyond that and several researched illnesses it's a mystery. The impact is not always direct. Body adjusts all the time. Not always in a smart way. Listening to it is not always the best choice. Digestion messes with out brain. Actually guts are a brain in itself. I don't have numbers here but a ton of neurons work in guts, not talking about rest of endocrinal activities.

    And this is very important for salsa dancing. We need energy - mental and physical. Often at late hours.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  2. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    "Eat often" is not at all obvious unless you have a problem with blood sugar fluctuations or need to gain a lot of weight. Why keep my digestive system constantly full? They body can store plenty of quickly available energy in the form of glycogen in the liver and muscles, it's not like the only way to get quick energy is to constantly eat.
    Smejmoon likes this.
  3. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    Often i mean more like no fasting. I don't know of healthy way to gain weight though.
  4. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    That's a contradiction in terms lol. Science is not like "religion", you don't "believe" in it. Science is systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses. So either we do it directly, or we research and assess the work others have done in terms of assumptions, hypothesis, methods of testing, etc. There is no need for "blind belief" in science as that would defeat the whole purpose of science.
    LarsM, salsamarty and Smejmoon like this.
  5. Dalaran1991

    Dalaran1991 Son Montuno

    Back on the dieting issue, my own experience goes against a lot of common advice. Like Sabrosura I never get hungry in the morning. And despite what I eat I NEVER gain or lose any weight. For the last 4 years I have always been 127lbs. I hardly eat any vegetables, all meat and fat (I love fatty meat) and lots of sugar, and I never lose my six-packs. Though I do work out a lot.

    So with that in mind I will definitely try out Sabrosura's diet for a month or so. I'm sure it wouldn't kill me. If it doesn't work I can just switch back to one of the proven diets lying around. That said, if you know of some other efficient diets, please let me know. I'll try them out all in time.
  6. Kading

    Kading Rhythm Deputy

    You are underestimating how much you can eat when you workout and dance.
    You could eat around 3500-4000 calories and not gain a single gram with all the working out you are doing. Back in NY I was eating (i counted) around 5000 calories a day and I did not gain any weight. I ate 20 slices of bread, 100 gram of peanut butter, 300 gram of rice, 300 gram of chicken, 100 gram tomato sauce, 200 gram beans, 1 fruit, 6 eggs, 30 gram of cookies a day and did not gain any weight.

    I searched a bit of information about the warrior diet and it seems interesting. I'm a big fan of eating enough and healthy (also numerous studies that confirm this), using the principle that your body is pretty simple machine that takes in food for fuel, so when your working out a lot you need a lot of fuel. The warrior diet doesn't actually make you eat less. It just tells you to not eat during the day, and then "overeat" during the night. You can still eat the amount of calories you normally eat to bulk or cut, just....not over the day but in 1 big meal. I would be very hesitant of the warrior diet if this wasn't the case since well..muscles need food heh.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
    Sabrosura likes this.
  7. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Lol some young men's bodies are truly lean mean eating machines :p If I ate 5,000 calories a day--actually, not even all that, if I ate 20 slices of bread a day--I'd get "queen sized" in about five days :p Actually I don't even think I could physically fit 5,000 calories into my stomach in one single day lol, unless maybe if it was all chocolate :D
  8. Dalaran1991

    Dalaran1991 Son Montuno

    Lol if I follow his diet I would be broke and still skinny in 3 weeks :D Gone is the time when I lived on student scholarship and food was of unlimited supply :oops:

    That aside, anyone has any idea why sometimes I still feel hungry even though I physically can't eat anything anymore? The other day after finishing my huge meal of half a kilo of rice, 3 eggs and 500g beef I still wanted to make myself a sandwich, but couldn't take it physically. But I still felt like I wanted to eat. It's frustrating.
    Smejmoon likes this.
  9. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    There is a saying: "the eyes are bigger than the stomach" :p

    Maybe you're bored with eating the same food so you are craving more flavors?
    Smejmoon likes this.
  10. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Out of curiosity, around how much would kading's food list cost for a week/day in Paris?
  11. Dalaran1991

    Dalaran1991 Son Montuno

    Let's see:

    20 slices of bread = 1.09 euro
    peanut butter = 2.24 a jar of 500g, so 100g = 0.45 eu
    1 kg rice = 1.23 eu, so 300 gr = 0.41 eu
    300 g chicken = 2 eu
    tomato sauce = 0.1 eu
    beans and fruit = 1eu
    30 eggs = 4.5 eu, so 6 eggs = 0.9
    cookies = 3 eu a box of 300 gr, so 30 g = 0.3

    So that's a total of 7.06 euro or 9.2$ per day for food expenditure. Kading, you bourgeoisie *******!!!! :eek::eek::confused::D That's royalty standard for student budget here! Especially since all my money go into weekend dances (10-15 euros a weekend) :rolleyes::D
    Smejmoon likes this.
  12. salsamarty

    salsamarty Rhythm Deputy

    I think there are both psychological and physiological components to eating habits. For most people the problem is that they eat too fast. It takes a while for satiation to take effect. The usual advice is to eat slowly or in small meals, let satiation take effect and then you don't feel hungry.

    However, it is obvious that people often eat for reasons that have nothing to do with hunger. A common reason cited is to relieve stress or depression. I think the habits you learn as you are growing up is another. I used to finish everything on my plate because that was what I was taught to do. Also, if you are out is social situations with people then you eat along with others.

    In any case I think you just need to have the motivation and a plan to follow whatever diet plan your a pursuing. It is hard at first then becomes easier and then becomes second nature. I would guess that it would take about a month to get the hang of a plan and 3-6 months for the new diet to become second nature. You need to learn to eat all over again. You've spent your whole life leaning to eat the way you do.

    When I was your age I could eat vast quantities of food. When I reached a certain age, say about 8 years ago, I swear my metabolism slowed down. I had to relearn how to eat differently which meant eating smaller portions. I also started doing all the cooking in my house. I tend to cook from scratch using local, seasonal, organic ingredients. It took a long time to learn to cook well. I pretty much cook a Mediterranean diet which also happens to have to some solid medical research behind it but I really eat it because I like it. I could go on about the paleo diet . . . but I won't.
  13. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    I don't subscribe 100% to any "diet" and I don't advocate zealous subscription to any diet. As I said above, the main thing I recommend is listening to your body. I think a lot of people today, at least here in the US, are really disconnected from their bodies (hence why "gringos" generally have a lot of trouble learning how to dance :p) and eating has become "automatic". And having a list of foods you have to "avoid" usually only makes you crave those foods when perhaps otherwise you would never think about them or choose to eat them.

    Coincidentally, what I personally have always liked and felt best on happens to be very close to the paleo-type diets (but not exactly the same as them--I've always liked potatoes for example): seafood, organ meat and other "weird" (to non-Americans :p) meats, fruits, eggs and nuts. I've never liked dairy, I hated milk and cheese when I was little. Nowadays I have discovered certain cheeses I enjoy every now and then, and occasionally (like 5-6 times a year :D) I like to make smoothies with sheep milk (still hate cow milk), but in general I eat very little dairy, which is one of the main "avoids" on the paleo-type diets (except for fermented dairy products, humans in general don't digest dairy well because they lose the lactase enzyme after age 3).

    [For reference, here is a summary of the paleo diet. Like I said above, while I don't subscribe to it, I do think the general idea (less processed food) is healthy. And I do think there are many people (though surely not all) who will be healthier eating less dairy and grains--but like I said I think the key is listening to our body.]

    • Grass-produced meats
    • Fish/seafood
    • Fresh fruits and veggies
    • Eggs
    • Nuts and seeds
    • Healthful oils (Olive, walnut, flaxseed, macadamia, avocado, coconut)
    • Cereal grains
    • Legumes (including peanuts)
    • Dairy
    • Refined sugar
    • Potatoes
    • Processed foods
    • Salt
    • Refined vegetable oils
  14. Kading

    Kading Rhythm Deputy

    lol :D I actually use the cheapest foods that are still healthy (one can discuss the healthiness of bread, but still its not that bad, and obv the cookies are craving).
    I've found no way to eat those amounts of calories (and good amount of protein) by using other products which are still healthy. 9.2$ means 63$ per week of food shopping. that's pretty cheap in my opinion. that's 4 hours of part-time job for an entire week of food!
  15. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Wouldn't nuts, a source of concentrated calories, be as cheap as peanut butter, if you buy them in bulk? Peanut butter (especially the cheap American varieties) is really bad because it contains trans fats (hydrogenated fats) which everyone agrees (no controversy here!) destroy your arteries and there is no "safe" limit. (But maybe it's made with healthier ingredients in Europe..?)

  16. Kading

    Kading Rhythm Deputy

    It doesn't contain trans fat thankfully and actually tastes like peanuts. It's hilarious because its from the same company that also produces Skippy peanut butter in the USA, which as you showed does contain trans fats
  17. Lawndart

    Lawndart Tumbao

    My guess would be the rice is why you are always hungry. It gets metabolized and sent into the blood as sugar. A quick rise in blood sugar means more insulin. This messes with the appetite. Try veggies instead for a week or so and see what happens.

    IF I eat correctly, I can listen to my body and my weight stays surprisingly steady. I do not have to count calories and seldom have to fight off cravings. I just eat when I am hungry and stop when I am not.

    If I eat processed foods and sweets, my body goes out of sync and no matter what I eat, I'm still hungry. And I will gain weight.

  18. Dalaran1991

    Dalaran1991 Son Montuno

    This is correct. Being Asian my staple food has always been rice. One time I went to the university diner and they only have meats with beans there. It's a small ration but for some reasons I feel so whole and full. I'm trying to find a cheap source of beans somewhere.

    Oh and about veggies, celery is now the first on my list. After being suggested by @Ron Obvious two weeks ago I bought some celery and took notes. Before I go dancing I would make a celery cocktail smoothie (being a bartender does help :D) and all the 6 times I did so I literally fried my aggression inhibitors. It feels like this:


    For those nights I get an unusually higher number of dances than normal, 8-15 over 2-3 hours. I feel much much less inhibited, and much bolder. Tonight for example twice I asked a lady to dance while she was being asked by another man. Both times the other man withdrew. Given that I have been a victim of Murphy's law my entire life I wouldn't count on the possibility of me running into such nice gentlemen (though I'm sure they are). I also chat much more freely during the dance. Another night I even asked 2 girls to dance Salsa with Bachata music and it turned out very well. This has never happened before.

    And thanks the dance gods, celery is cheap :) And a very good source of fiber too
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  19. chrisk

    chrisk Super Moderator Staff Member

    Sorry, but this doesn't correct represent my point of view. I strongly believe in proper research and studies, whether they are funded and done by the ivy league or whether they are done by the industry. With regards to experts (I don't see why you use quotes here or would you ask you plumber to do a heart operation on your or ask you baker how to invest your money?), I rather listen to those who studied their subject for years compared and who can back up their claims with scientific reference rather then people who just states "you shoud do this", but I can't/won't really provide any scientific background for why.

    May I ask if you did some research abotu Dr. Virapen before posting this? It's certainly in his interest to say that the "decided to quit", but it rather seems that he was discharged by his employer and then even tried to sue them for discrimination, which was rejected as he couldn't provide enough evidence for this. Although he presents himself as whistleblower he seems to have had no qualms speaking at the event that was run by a commission that was created by scientologiy members or at the event called "Anti Zensur Konferenz", which seems very much like a place for any kind of pseudo-scientific, absurd or already refuted theories to spread without having to present any real evidence. With just this knowledge about Dr. Virapen I would be very careful to believe in any of his statements

    May I ask why you suddenly here start to refer to doctors, when the discussion was so far about healthly live styles? Also if you quote this report, you shoud maybe also mention that the causes for this number would be "unnecessary surgery, medication errors in hospitals, other errros in hospitals, nosocomical infections in hospitals and nonerror, adverse effects of medications." Now if you add up the number for reasons that are declared "in hospital", you'll get 107000, which is nearly half of the number. So what do these issues that occur in hospital have to do with nutrition, which was and is the topic of this thread?

    Why do you ignore that I clearly wrote in my last paragrapht that you're free to follow this diet, but just not present is a recommendation for everybody to follow as the scientific evidenc is not there?

    While the medical education in the US might lack in diet/nutrition training, this doesn't say anything about whether those doctors who are active in the field of nutrition or want to go into it don't attend additional education courses etc. For example here in Germany, doctors can work towards an additional qualificiation for nutrition. Also you're forgetting here that nutritionist, who studied the subject of nutrition, and biochemist are also experts, who depending on their speciality spend year studying how the human body works, how food is digested and what our ancestors really ate.
    azana and Aurel like this.
  20. Joy in Motion

    Joy in Motion Sonero

    Coming to this discussion a little late, but thought I'd share what has worked for me in dramatically reducing my foot pain. Hope nobody minds that I don't feel like getting into the nutrition debate that's currently going...

    The biomechanist Katy Bowman's alignment advice and exercises are excellent. You can find them in her Fix Your Feet DVD or in her book Every Woman's Guide to Foot Pain Relief (which is also valuable for men). My feet (and my dancing) have improved so much since implementing her alignment advice and regularly practicing the exercises. In a nutshell, the advice and exercises center around restoring the calves and hamstrings to their proper length, increasing the nerve connections to the intrinsic muscles of your feet, and placing your weight in its proper place so the correct part of your foot is bearing the weight instead of putting unhealthy stress on the parts of your feet that should be devoted to sensing and balancing.

    I will just add that arch pain is not due to lack of arch support in shoes. It is due to lack of arch support in your own feet. So you should focus on your feet and your body to fix the problem. Of course finding proper shoes is important (Katy Bowman's book gives excellent advice on this), but arch support in shoes only attempts to treat the symptom and does not solve the problem but may actually be contributing to it even if you experience some relief.
    Smejmoon, MacMoto, tallpaul and 3 others like this.

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