Ladies, It's Time to Give Up Your High Heels

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by khabibul35, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. Dissonant Harmony

    Dissonant Harmony Rhythm Deputy

    In addition to Vit's questions:
    -Why must Casino be danced heel->toe to begin with?

    Has it been standardized?
    Is that technique more efficient?
     
    #41
  2. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Looks like one of several myths on this forum and elsewhere; others were

    - stepping on heels prevents cuban movement
    - steps must be short in order for cuban movement to vork
    - inner edge of the foot has to be used in order for cuban movement to work
    - etc ...

    Usually they are in some contradiction with each other and without some sound physical/medical explanation why ...

    But one thing stands I suppose - if one is doing it wrong, then all of them are valid ... so cuban movement won't work whether he/she steps on the heel, on on the toe, on the inner edge, on the flat foot, using short steps, stepping at place etc ...
     
  3. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    I see no reason for casino to go heel toe. In addition even if it was to use that footwork approach I see no reason for claiming the need for no heels. In BR standard there are plenty of heel leads and high heels for the ladies.
     
  4. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    @vit @Live2dance @Dissonant Harmony its more efficient to dance heel toe in casino. The reason for this has to do with spins and controlling the speed and momentum which is almost impossible "salsa style" dancing only on the balls of the feet. It's not that it's actually impossible to dance in ballroom heels. I know plenty of people who can and do but I find it very unstable. and I've seen Cubans in Cuba dance on their toes too but almost always while wearing sneakers or flat shoes.
     
  5. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    Of course it hasn't been standardized yet but that's what yoel is trying to do. that's why you see so much variation in the way people dance casino which you don't see with ballroom since it HAS been standardized. But since I dance salsa, when I started casino I began learning using salsa techniques. Not until I re learned how to dance with heel toe stepping action did my casino really improve.
     
  6. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero



    Anyway you guys can judge me for yourselves, but here is casino danced heel toe
     
    Dissonant Harmony likes this.
  7. Dissonant Harmony

    Dissonant Harmony Rhythm Deputy

    Assuming my aim is:
    -Good hip movement.
    -Good control.

    Could any of you (obviously better-trained than me) guys please break down the benefits and drawbacks of heel leads compared to heel-toe?

    *I know that some famous WCS dancers do step forward with heel leads.
     
  8. Peason

    Peason Son

    All I see is move after move after move. With not much regard to what happens in the music. And this comes back in all his clips I have seen.
    What I would like to see is how his dancing matches the music. As long as this is not the case, I will take whatever his method teaches with a big grain of salt.
     
    LarsM likes this.
  9. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Well, 99% of dance teachers don't teach musicality anyway. They teach dancing. I don't remember seeing the clips with "and when the music does this, I do this ... ". If you do, please post ;)
     
  10. Peason

    Peason Son

    Are you saying there are no videos online of teachers showing great musicality while dancing?
    Because that's what this is. A demonstration of him dancing. Not a teaching clip.
     
    vit likes this.
  11. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Yeah, I misunderstood. That's correct, he doesn't show that here, but in some other clips he does to some extent, just that he doesn't include things from afrocuban and similar, because he wants keeping them out of his concept of Casino because they break his concept of smoothness and of Casino being dance of white people ... Dancing that way is not popular anymore (not just in salsa, but in other genres as well), but learning how to move really smooth isn't any easier than moving in "musical way" (with many stops, shines etc), many will say it's harder (ask terence) ... anyway, his dancing still looks very much Cuban, just in a different way that belongs to some past times ... while many things people buy as cuban or latin don't ...
     
    wol likes this.
  12. Jag75

    Jag75 Shine Officer

    High heels have their benefits in linear style salsa.
     
  13. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    The original concept of creating CM was/is the use of "ball" for a forward step, was the intro to develop the weight transfer in an upwards manner i.e. a softer approach and one that was more natural .
    IF one places a heel first then the leg has the normal tendency to straighten. The economy between the 2 actions is ( to my mind ) 2 fold ; efficiency and natural . The heel lead does replicate the same look/feel .

    So.. Is it possible to create CM using heel leads ?, of course.. pick your poison..

    WCS... one does not need the same type of body action in "swing" dances, and is somewhat of an anathema .Both heel and ball are used .

    ECS; this style does use a ball/fla styledt footwork. That technique compliments the actions .
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  14. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    • Very interesting! I understand what you are saying. On the other hand if you are a trained BR Standard dancer then you do heel leads but you do not straighten the leg. But it is a very hard question as different things come into play (body action, leg action, hip action and movement initiator but also style). And the last is very important as going on heel leads in a latin dance will feel very staccato as the softness of CM will not be there. At least not the way some of us are used to it. The feeling of CM is not impossible with heel leads but it is a different CM from BR CM for sure.

      In the BR CM the foot remains in contact with the floor throughout the step fwd. The leg that steps fwd start from behind so as it moves fwd the toe/ball/inside edge is what touches the floor. As the moving foot reaches the standing foot the dancer has a choice of either stepping on a heel lead or toe lead. The toe lead will mean a continuation of the previous movement and a body movement fwd with push into and from the hip. A heel lead would require that the movement changes as the moving foot passes the standing foot. The toes will have to lift off the floor. The hip action will not be as clear as the moving leg will need more space to move unless it bends. But then it will start feeling odd still possible though but sharp.

      Now if we leave BR aside a flat lead is possible with CM (merengue). It will be harsher than the BR CM but it will be there. I also recall as a beginner I was stepping flat primarily because it was assuring me that I was stepping on the beat. But as one develops in the dance they may look for other elements.

      Also looking at the rueda from Yoel with the three couples from some older videos one will see that they have very much toe heel actions as the dancers move fwd but also break bwd or step bwd. Even in the example from @manzanadulce I see the same from Yoel. At the same time the amount of fwd movement in this latest video is much less.
     
  15. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

    I do not like heels. I prefer Frankie's shoe style :D:D

    At home, I practice without shoes at all.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  16. salsera_alemana

    salsera_alemana Nuevo Ritmo

    I can dance (salsa) much better in low to medium high heels than in flat shoes. I use flat sneekers on concrete only and that can be tiresome. Followers in heels look much more elegant when they dance than followers in flat shoes.

    The problem is not the high heels but the dancers who wear the high heels who were never taught how to NOT step onto other dancers' feet, or were not listening when they were taught.

    I know because I did it, too, by accident in my salsa beginnings. But that was in 1991 and there was not much teaching going on at that time. I assume that it still is not taught nowadays. Even with all the salsa classes nowadays given by all these salsa experts and salsa "professors" I get constantly stepped on. So I assume that these teachers do not teach their students how to NOT step on others and how to stay in your own dance space and let others have fun, too.

    Believe me, it is not the shoes that are the problem! When going out dancing, we mostly dance among Latinos. Latinas normally were higher and more "dangerous" heels but I hardly ever get stepped on and most people keep their dance space so that all dancers on the dance floor can have fun. Latinos consider it very rude to step on others.

    Some of you were complaining about "sexualizing" salsa dancing. You must have never danced in real Latin clubs. Latinas always dress up to the "T", with very elegant high heels and very sexy dresses! Salsa has always been a sensual dance and Latinas have always dressed that way (check out youtube). That has always been a fun part of Latin dancing for me. As a woman you feel elegant, sexy and special when you dress up for the occasion! I love it!

    Salsa dancing is not just a physical gym exercise, on the contrary!
     
    DJ Yuca, azana, vit and 1 other person like this.
  17. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

    Salsa is not a sport for me, and I always dress nicely. I love elegant cloth and dresses, but I do not like heels. Once I was badly injured by one lady's sharp, high heels, so I could not dance for three months because of it. And I am elegant and sexy without heels:).
     
  18. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

    Flat shoes;) and beautiful dance.
     
  19. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao


    Pros frequently wear flats when teaching, but, the heel on a shoe is ever present in social style dancing
     
  20. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco


    terence curious, you ever danced in heels ? :p
     

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