LA style or Cuban?!?

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by Martialdog, Oct 5, 2005.

  1. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    another one hard to identify is when a dancer is dancing on1 but tapping on 4 and 8.
     
  2. MAMBO_CEC

    MAMBO_CEC Sabor Ambassador

    I need to see the whole dancer and feet and hear the music, after all they are dancing to the music, by listening to the music and watching them, I can tell what they are dancing.
     
    Winston likes this.
  3. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Which is old school mambo..and 2 has nothing to do with style, but purely a choice of musical interpretation.
    "Style " is HOW one dances .
     
  4. Joco

    Joco Changui

    Yeah, what you describe is a better way of doing it (in my opinion). I was thought the lady finishes with the turn on the 7, and only to use the 8th beat if she does 3+ spins.. :S. But that's why we have salsaforums :p

    I don't know.. maybe we are counting differently, or maybe you are thinking of the "power 2" way of dancing (in which case I can't comment as I don't dance that way at all). I was more thinking of what people here call the ETon2 thingy..
     
  5. LarsM

    LarsM Tumbao

    This is what I was trying to say @granrey :)

    Copa on1:
    - Back break on 1
    - Stop on 3
    - Lead back out on 5

    Copa on2:
    - step in place on 5
    - back break on 6
    - No real stop, leading back out on 1 (1 less beat to complete the move)

    Which leads to copas feeling more snappy on1 and more of a continuous motion on2, even if the entire move uses the same amount of beats on1 and on2. This is obviously a bit generalized.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  6. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    Copa on1:
    step in place on 8
    - back break on 1
    - No real stop
    Le me know lol
     
  7. LarsM

    LarsM Tumbao

    yeah, no.
     
  8. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    What is on1 with on2 flavor? You mean sloppy?
     
    LarsM likes this.
  9. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    I still think people do not understand what On 2 means. Some think things from On2 are different from On1. Its the same cycle separed by 5 beats.

    If you see this instructor. She starts saying On2 and On1 are different. Then half video later she admits and demonstrate everything can be done the same way.


    .
    On this other video. The instructor switches from On1 to On2 right away by simply saying 6,7 when he was supposed to say 1,2.

    Notice all the moves have the same speed ans done the same way as On1.

     
  10. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    Why can you step in place on 5 then back break on 6 while dancing on2 but you cant step in place 8 and back break on 1 while dancing On1? What is stopping you?
     
  11. Winston

    Winston Descarga

    You can put it that way :)

    Some people here say there is no difference between on1 and on2 if you only look at the steps. The only difference is the beat on which you break forward.

    But now I have another question, that almost looks like the previous one, but isn't:


    Imagine you have 4 salsa video's without sound. They all start somewhere in the middle, so you won't see the start when they begin to dance.
    2 videos you'll see only the feet of a dancer, say everything below the knees.
    The 2 other videos you'll see the head of a dancer, say everything above the belly button.

    All videos are selected by experts, recognized by you. So there's no question if the execution is correct of the basic steps on the videos.
    Now the quiz is that 1 top video is NY style, the other LA style, and 1 bottom video is NY, the other LA style.

    Would you be able to tell which video is danced on which style or would you need to see the whole body of the dancer and/or hear the music?
     
  12. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    Agreed.
     
  13. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    Feet is enough to tell. If they are not sloppy and dance according to the book and music - on1 basic will draw much narrower ellipse. Or be more flowing. It's impossible to dance smoothly et2 basic and stay straight on the line. Mechanics.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
    Winston likes this.
  14. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    Its not about counting. You just need to know the two cycles are separated by 5 beats. If you know this simple fact, any move can be converted.

    Any move from On2 can done on On1 the same way. All you need to do is deduct 5 beats. Meaning if a move on On2, starts on beat 6. On On1, the move will start on beat 1.

    You can do the opposite. If you want to convert a move from On1 to On2. You just need to add 5 beats.
     
  15. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    before you criticise, you need to understand that there are EIGHT beats over 2 bars .
     
  16. tallpaul

    tallpaul Pattern Police

    Your internal muscle memory.

    It's possible to delay steps or rush them, but on1 dancers practice fitting their basic steps into the count of "123, 567", and ETon2 dancers practice fitting the same thing into the count of "67 1,23 5".
     
  17. LarsM

    LarsM Tumbao

    What tallpaul said. The step in place on the 5 count when dancing on2 is a natural part of the flow, whereas stepping on 8 on1 would involve delaying your 7 step and stepping on 8, quite unusual.

    Anyway, you should probably learn to dance on2 yourself @granrey and feel the difference instead of endless theorizing which is pretty much completely useless in practical terms. That goes both for the copa example and other patterns. That's not to say that most moves can't be translated flawlessly.
     
    MAMBO_CEC likes this.
  18. dav7802

    dav7802 Changui

    This is the best video I have seen someone breaking down the timing of dancing on1 and on2(ET). Both use the QQS, it just happens on different steps.

    He explains the difference around 5:30 mark. Before that it is a bunch of opinions about his choice and why he likes one more that the other. www .youtube. com/watch?v= ATIVTHb7o14
    (take out the spaces in the link above)

    So by theory, if you were watching two couples with the sound off you could tell who was on1 and who was on2 based on where their slow step was in the basic.
     
    Smejmoon likes this.
  19. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Exactly

    @granrey, may I ask about venue where you usually dance salsa? I'm asking that because a number of videos that you posted are with ballroom dancers dancing salsa

    Most of us here dance salsa in salsa venues / congresses etc, that includes salsa, some bachata and maybe some cha cha cha. These crowd are different than ballroom crowd and usually don't mix with them. So whole approach to dancing and teaching is quite different. In ballroom schools, people usually dance a few relatively basic moves and usually with regular partner or smaller number of partners. In salsa venues, it's quite different - there is big "inflation" of both number of moves you dance and number of partners you dance with, compared with BR salsa. Because of that, muscle memory is playing very important role and limit things that are not big problem if danced in BR venues. Of course you can dance your own version of on1 / on2, delay or speed up some steps etc ... but you quickly run into compatibility problems with other dancers and their muscle memories in pretty much every move you do. And it indeed is a problem in salsa (and also in similar kizomba venues) - various teachers teach things differently, so with some people you can have very good dance, with some other you can't ... just because various tiny details in your dancing are somewhat different
     
    MAMBO_CEC and LarsM like this.
  20. Dissonant Harmony

    Dissonant Harmony Rhythm Deputy

    So much mess...

    1) On1, On2, On3...Are not styles.
    2) LA and NY are styles.

    3) Most On1 dancers dance QQS (1-2-3).
    4) You can do the same thing, On2: QQS (2-3-4).
    5) But instead it's actually more popular to dance On2: QSQ (2-3-5)! As you can see, this is different than what mentioned above,

    6) LA is a show dance, characterized by sharp dynamics, heavy tension and compression between the dancers, big steps, very linear...
    7) NY is a social-dance, and is generally more smooth, soft and compact.

    -OFC, there are no black and whites, and people are allowed to express themselves and communicate the way they feel.
    But some styles of dancers can distinctive enough one may say whether they are more 'LA' or more 'NY'.
     
    granrey and Winston like this.

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