LA style or Cuban?!?

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by Martialdog, Oct 5, 2005.

  1. Dissonant Harmony

    Dissonant Harmony Rhythm Deputy

    This is LA:
    {1-2-3, 5-6-7} (QQS, QQS; breaking on 1)

    This is LA "pushed 5 beats into the future"
    {6-7-8, 2-3-4} (QQS, QQS; breaking on 2).

    But
    That's not what ET style dancers learn to do, because what they learn is actually:
    {1-2-3, 5-6-7} (QQS, QQS; breaking on 2)

    Which is not similar to the other options I had described above (at least in theory), because the basic step is phrased differently. (The slow is the step after the breaking step, and not the one before it).

    ---

    +The difference between NY and LA is not just merely about that. As I said earlier - If I dance Salsa On1, I would still consider my dancing NY-ish.
     
    Chris_Yannick likes this.
  2. MAMBO_CEC

    MAMBO_CEC Sabor Ambassador

    I am not quite sure what you're trying to show with this video clip...which bears no resemblance to salsa/mambo as danced in my venue..you seem to be focusing on the wrong stuff..whether the follow has more time on1 or on2? Your focus should be on your timing, whether you can stay on the 2, and not keep drifting back on one, once you mastered that, then you can worry about whether your follow has more time or not. Here is a vid of Supermario dancing on1 and on2 to the same song: I will let folks decide whether the follow has more time or not:


    And here is a clip that can help you stay on the 2.
     
  3. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    I tried really hard to post worst possible clips in this thread as examples, and now, Supermario's clip looks worse than all three of them together, times 2 (on1 + on2) ... :p
     
  4. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    If this is correct. there should be no difference in speed?
     
  5. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Exactly. However, as you can see, there is no NY in that equation, but only LA pushed back or forward ...

    If you want NY, you have (speaking strictly mathematically) first to push LA by 5 beats, and in addition to that, push steps on beats 8 and 4 by 1 beat further ...
     
    Dissonant Harmony likes this.
  6. Dissonant Harmony

    Dissonant Harmony Rhythm Deputy

    But this is the "incorrect" one.

    I personally do 2-3-4 though. (the unpopular option, which is like On1).
    I like my dance compact - so slowing, chilling and connecting before the breaking step is perfect for me.
     
  7. MAMBO_CEC

    MAMBO_CEC Sabor Ambassador

    How so? Is he not dancing on2?
     
  8. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    It's not about the timing, just his moves make no sense to me
    But good thing in his dancing is ... he is not terrying the followers :p
     
  9. Winston

    Winston Descarga


    No, I'm not.

    I just like to know what you think of this description.

    Because in my opinion it's really hard to explain the steps with QQS-QQS.
    The reason is that there must always be a slow (S) if there are 8 beats, while you're only stepping 6 times if you're dancing on1 or on2.

    Instead of the steps this description tells us what you're body is doing as a whole. The pause on2 around the centre of the forward break and back break gives us the famous myth of more time for spinning on2 than there is on1.
     
  10. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Not slowing before the break steps is making NY more smooth ...
     
  11. Winston

    Winston Descarga

    Although you can dance on1 with the on2 flavour and visa versa if you think about it :wacky:
     
  12. Peason

    Peason Son

    Am I glad I dance Cuban style. There is not so much discussion. :bookworm:

    We only got a tiempo... and contra tiempo... and apparently also on3 and on5 and... :eek:
     
    LarsM, wol, Smejmoon and 1 other person like this.
  13. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    I'm all fine with your post.

    but how pushing LA 5 beats to come up with NY changes the speed of the moves?
     
  14. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    It doesn't. Difference is in steps 8 an 4 moved to 1 and 5, giving different time distribution in parts of the some moves. Of course total time remains the same.

    But it's just one among 10, 20, 30... reasons. People are dancing both on1 and on2 various ways, each having several styles and substyles, that are different in hundreds little details that, when put together, make a difference...
     
    MAMBO_CEC and Smejmoon like this.
  15. Joco

    Joco Changui

    This is how I see it... (maybe ay simple example might help)

    Imagine a follower dancing on1, and you want to lead her through a simple right hand turn on the spot. On beats 1,2,3, the follow will do the 1st half of her basic. On beat 4, the follow has completed the 1st half of the basic and chills for a beat. Then on 5,6,7 she executes the right hand turn. By beat 8, she is done, and again, on the first beat, she is ready to start with the basic anew.

    Let's consider the same on2. Now on beats 5,6,7 the follow will do the first half of her basic (on 6 she is breaking back). She starts the right hand turn on 1,2,3 where really the important break step happens on the 2. But now, when she reaches the 3rd beat, she is not quite done with the turn, but she needs the 4th (the "slow", but now it is being used!) beat and even the 5th beat to enter into the new bar, into her new basic step. So, since she uses the pause of the 4th beat to "flow" into the next bar of her dancing, if done well, this may seem smoother, or seem to give more time & fluidity to the dance and to the moves. This (for me) is mainly due the the location of the "slow" in relation to which beat you are breaking on.

    There is nothing stopping you from doing something similar on1, i.e. using the 4th & 8th to your advantage. This does not come natural to the majority of people (that I have met), while it does happen quite naturally (or by necessity?) when one dances on2. Funny enough, I realized how to "exploit" the 4th & 8th beat when dancing on1 after I learned to dance on2 well enough..
     
  16. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    This is what I was taught in the school on1. Follow actually has 5,6,7,8 till 1 to finish the turn. For example in inside turn at 7 the expectation is that she faces away from the lead and takes her time to finish the remaining half a turn. If we're talking about single right turn.. ; after couple months there should be enough time to make two turns during beats 5;6;7;8.
     
    LarsM likes this.
  17. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    I think I fixed. let me know lol:

    Imagine a follower dancing on2, and you want to lead her through a simple right hand turn on the spot. On beats 6,7,8, the follow will do the 1st half of her basic. On beat 1, the follow has completed the 1st half of the basic and chills for a beat. Then on 2,3,4 she executes the right hand turn. By beat 5, she is done, and again, on the first beat, she is ready to start with the basic anew.
     
  18. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    good, at least you and I have similar understanding lol
     
  19. Winston

    Winston Descarga

    Okay, one question:

    If you have 4 video's without sound.
    2 videos you'll see only the feet of a dancer, say everything below the knees.
    The 2 other videos you'll see the head of a dancer, say everything above the belly button.

    All videos are selected by experts, recognized by you. So there's no question if the execution is correct of the basic steps on the videos.
    Now the quiz is that 1 top video is on2, the other on1 and 1 bottom video is on2, the other on1.

    Would you be able to tell which video is danced on which style or would you need to see the whole body of the dancer and/or hear the music?
     
    MAMBO_CEC likes this.
  20. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    yes, I would be able to tell as long as I see how the dancer started dancing and pretty much is the only way I can figure it out for sure. the most complicated to identify is an On2 in which the dancer is holding the 1 without tapping.

    anyone should be able to as long as you know what On1 or On2 means. which is simply on which beats the dancer is doing the breaks. On1: beats 1 and 5. On2:beats 2 and 6.

    As mention On1 is pretty much universal. the male dancer will move forward with the left leg and break on the first beat. Now there are versions like crusado in which dancer might start forward with the right leg and some salsas related to cumbias in which the dancer will break backwards on 1. sample case below.



    On2 as mentioned and shown on my previous posts and videos is not universal. even though people on this tread want to insist On2 is pretty much NY.

    On2 can start with a tap or a hold or backwards or forward on beat 1 or on beat 2 and which any leg. The thing is that the most popular On2 is the NY. which starts backwards on the first beat and breaks on the second beat.
     
    Winston likes this.

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