La Epoca Film

Discussion in 'Websites of Interest' started by ColdSalsero, Mar 25, 2011.

  1. LookUpMaestro

    LookUpMaestro Changui

    I've received an email from La Epoca Film :

    Part I "La Epoca Re-Edited - The Palladium Era" film and soundtrack will be officially released 01 March. We hope that you place your order, now! This re-edit is a magnificent touch on the Palladium-era with much more footage added from modern dancers from the US and Europe giving more balance to the movie making it more of a friendly film but without losing the old-school touch. Basically, about 40% of the re-edit is new.


    I hope he has hired a professional editor to do the work this time. He clearly is not up to the job in my opinion.
    Richie Blondet likes this.
  2. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    What irks me is that he caved to the BS the modern scene were spewing about it. It's an analysis. There's no positive or negative. People take themselves entirely too seriously in that scene. That's why mediocrity and egotism will always be hand in hand over there. Any constructive criticism is laid down and suddenly one is being "mean" or has hate in their heart.

    DJ Ara likes this.
  3. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    What the Hell have modern dancers got to do with a doc on the Palladium era? Why can't Josue Joseph simply admit it's a film about the international salsa scene, and stop wasting the time of all the people who, like me, are interested in the mambo era?

    What a joker. I really didn't think my opinion of him would get any worse, but it has.
    Richie Blondet likes this.
  4. wildbill20056

    wildbill20056 Sabor Ambassador

    Sadly though this is a poor response to the worthwhile criticism the film recieved, and some of the terrible interpersonal skills Josue displayed when showing/marketting it.

    What I got, from these forums at least, was a need for a far more developed story of 'the Palladium era.' What we got was a very narrow, on a particular message story which pandered to the egos of a few.

    We were reliably informed by Cuban Pete that he invented just about everything in Mambo, and told all the latinos danced on2. It didn't really get better from there.

    There were some fascinating insights, and I have to say I'm glad I saw it. However you wouldn't want to form a balanced view of our subject from that movie alone.

    I don't see how throwing in alot of modern dancers (there were too many of them in the original already) will help.

    One of the huge inconsistencies of the film was our being shown modern, spin-tastic dancers, as if these represented the flag bearers of authentic salsa!
    matty and Richie Blondet like this.
  5. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Uh-oh...What is "authentic salsa"? Does it exclude all "evolved" salseros? You mean "good", "nice" salsa? :) I think "good" and "nice" convey your intended meaning better...and less controversially ;)

    (Yes, I'm feeling rambunctious ;))
  6. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Capitalizing "Hell" we know you're reaaally angry!
  7. wildbill20056

    wildbill20056 Sabor Ambassador

    Well no, the theme of the film, is that we should all respect dancers of yesteryear more, that there is a lost art of 'real dancing.' It then proceeds to show us plenty of dancing indistinguishable from that which you'd see at any high level modern social. Totally inconsistent.

    Do I think all the modern dancers shown sucked? No, not at all, but that's a different conversation altogether!
  8. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    This needs slightly editing, however the rest of the post is spot on:

    One of the huge inconsistencies of the film was our being shown modern, spin-tastic dancers, as if these represented the flag bearers of the Palladium-era mambo that the film pretends to be documenting.
  9. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    It's irrelevant.

    Do I care if someone wants to give yet more publicity to the spin-happy heroes of the salsa scene, and their over inflated egos? Not remotely. J Joseph can make 1000s of films about the so-called salsa superstars for all I care.

    But when it's done under the guise of documenting something completely different (mambo in the 50s and 60s), that I am very interested in and that has yet to be documented sufficiently, then I do not appreciate it.

    Particularly as it's a pathetic attempt to associate some sense of class and tradition on a bunch of people who are unwilling to admit to themselves, or others, that they are somewhat lacking in both these qualities. Jokers. They need to learn from and give some respect to their roots, instead of moaning because their egos haven't received enough massaging.
    Richie Blondet likes this.
  10. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    Could you expand on this a little. I'm curious because another well known instructor from my neck of the woods had confided that he was kind of turned off by him because he came across a wee bit too arrogant with regards to the past/history. Are you saying that he was somewhat like what I described in public during film screenings... or...?

    For me, in my opinion, the error was limiting 'La Epoca' or the era to ONE venue. He's pretty much focused on the Palladium Ballroom and nothing else. Nothing wrong with that, but the title of the project gives the impression that it's going to revolve around the era and everything happening during the time frame itself. For example, his father Alfonso Joseph, the bassist Leo Flemming Sr and the trumpet player whose name escapes me could have given their impressions and first person accounts of other dance halls or scenes that weren't "downtown." The Club Cubano Interamericano where folks like Arsenio, Patato, Justi Baretto, Kako and other performed at. The dancers who went there, whom abound in NYC. A place like the Latin Quarter that was a few blocks away from the Palladium Ballroom could have been profiled. The Manhattan Center ballroom on 34th Street used to host dances there that featured many different orchestras was another location that was important to the promotion of the music and dance. They could have put the spotlight on the Harvest Moon Ball which was going strong during 'La Epoca.' The HMB being a precursor or model of the Salsa Congresses today. A lot of things could have been done. But it seems like it squarely focused on educating the masses on the different musical genres of cuban music. And giving a platform to the veteran dancers. Again, nothing wrong with that. But what was presented just didn't give a clear picture of the era or the culture. IMHO he needed to interview the dancers that were part of the NYC nightlife during the era. Social dancers as much as the performers. Performers are coming from a certian angle, whereas a dancer who does so socially or leisurely is coming from a totalyl different angle. And it is this angle that, quite frankly, is one that the majority of the public shares. It's how you would get people today to relate to the era. Through the folks who were in the same position they're in now...

    That would have been something I would have edited out. The claims that are obviously self-serving I mean. Only because they can be easily disproven. It's just boasting. Cuban Pete certainly achieved a measure of notoriety, as did his first wife Millie Donay. But to think he "invented" over 100 steps and motions that have been copied by others and made a aprt of the overall dance vocabulary is just not accurate. I've yet to talk to anyone form that era who borrowed or emulated any of his alleged signature 'moves.' I'm not saying he wasn't an influence on somebody. But the same term keeps coming up when you speak to the old timers about Pete's style of dance. "THEATRICAL." He was a performer. So 'street dancers' [for lack of a better term] aren't dancing in that fashion on the dance floor as he is expressing himself in the Mambo Madness film short because it wasn't 'authentic'. It was Cuban Pete's rendition of showmanship. In fact, I'd say the entire film Mambo Madness doesn't even scratch the surface of being fully representative of the Mambo dancers of the 1950s in NYC...

    What would you say was a positive highlight for you? The only thing I can think of was that he put the spotlight on a couple of people who I felt deserved to be given a platform. Primarily the black musicians in the film like his father, Leo Flemming, Julian Llanos and others...

    I don't either and is why I think he buckled to the criticism. Which revolved around nothing more than modern dancers not being given more exposure time in the film. That's teh mentality of many of the pro-dancers out there, They want to be up front and have the cameras pointing in their direction. Everything else is insignificant to them...

    He [Josue] is a part of that scene. That's the audience he's targeting and who he is catering to. That's probably why he's showing them more of what they'll recognize and identify with. I think sometimes it s better that someone who is completely oblivious or clueless of the culture itself come in and do these sort of projects. They won't have the prejudices or preferences that people, who are a part of it, often develop over the years and can give a much wider window into everything...
  11. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    I thought the capitalization was accurate, but it probably is inappropriate.

    I am not angry, but I am astounded, and irritated, at the audacity of the new school dancers who had the shameless gall to complain about not getting enough exposure in a film they had no reason to even be in.
  12. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    There's more to the madness...

    This account has got to be the biggest load of crap I've ever read and I've read 'em all. This isn't too far from the way Salsa begins in the film EL CANTANTE. Not only did they pinpoint a date for the start of Salsa, but they explain a supposed divide that existed in the scene? TP found it difficult to play a chart that some nobody didn't because he rehearsed it? C'mooooooon. Talk about baloney with CHEESE. This completely wipes out any crumbs of credibility they might have had. Unreal.
  13. wildbill20056

    wildbill20056 Sabor Ambassador

    I remembered reading this when the film was being promo'd:

    I thought that gave a very good impression of the man and his attitude: not so great.

    As to the rest, I thought some of the clips of yesteryear were great, the interviews with genuine musicians also.

    Of course the film tells a very narrow story, with no space for any dissenting voices. It's desperately poor in that respect.

    Also I think its message clashes badly with the material of modern dancers already included in the original edit. On one hand we're being told we've lost the key to the magic of yesteryear, but on the other, that these dancers (indistinguishable from the mainstream of today's on2 crowd), are the flame bearers. Make up your mind already Josue!

    A better documentary on the history of this super music and dancing is surely not far away time.
  14. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    You really think the makers of La Epoca might have had some crumbs of credibility?
  15. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    Only because I know what he was attempting to achieve and get across. What his dad wanted the public to know. Unfortunately, it just seems like the project wound up being fueled by more ignorant slamming of "Salsa" and a desire to be 'recognized' by the very scene that doesn't give a good fart about the subject matter he's pushing on them. Not to mention be a promotional vehicle for a music career. There's nothing wrong with this on its face as long as the content has been well researched and corroborated with undisputable evidence. But a lot of the information is incorrect. The info at the very beginning is not accurate. The perception begin given of the Palladium is more myth than fact. And the opinions being given by some who are featured in the film aren't coming from an educated perspective. [Like dancers who are in their 20s and 30 giving their take on how dancers 60 years ago were feeling emotionally as opposed to daners today.] Making blanket statements and judging an era or generation of dancers as being superior based on both hearsay and ONE piece of film footage [The "Mambo Madness" film]. Neither of which are completely representative of the overall scene back then and are just interpretations. This subject matter is a lot more complicated than the simple story being told in this project. It's a good topic to chew on, but someone else with a clearer and more definitive motive needs to be at the helm of it...
  16. LookUpMaestro

    LookUpMaestro Changui

    This is the trailer for La Epoca Part 2 - The Lost Rhythms In Salsa, Re-Edited.
    I have a feeling there is little love for Josue on this thread. But I found the trailer interesting.
  17. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    It is interesting and as as funny as previous ones. In first 10 seconds Mouaze is credited as being from Vilnius :)) Whatever.. it continues like that..
  18. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    Also he called himself pretensucator.. it's really great movie I think. Having a drink handy is recommended, but you might spit it out at times.
  19. wildbill20056

    wildbill20056 Sabor Ambassador

    The thing I found most enlightening was that all the pioneers of mambo and, before that, Son and Danzon etc, were dance mathematicians! Amazing.

    As always I think there's something to be said for the motived behind the project, but the final product manages to spend half its time actively trying to rub everyone up the wrong way.
  20. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    The last 3 posters on this thread.

    You guys were being sarcastic right?


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