Is Kizomba just dry humping?

Discussion in 'Salser@s Anonymous' started by nowhiteshoes, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. Marisha

    Marisha Tumbao

    I think I understand what you are talking about...
     
  2. Aurel

    Aurel Sonero

    Depends on what style you like:



     
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  3. Marisha

    Marisha Tumbao

    Thank you:D, now I understand why vit likes more Tarraxinha :D
    ***
    Honestly, it is a little bit boring. Our teacher taught us same elements, so we can dance them during same musical fragments....but dancing the whole song just Tarraxinha...I do not know:)
     
  4. Marisha

    Marisha Tumbao

    Aurel, what about you? How long have you been dancing? Tell a little bit about your experience?
     
  5. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Yeah, dancing it whole song with or more songs with one partner is usually too much (although there are exceptions ...)

    However, it also depends on the teacher. Two local teachers taught me tarraxinha and it was very boring as they didn't know how to dance it ... Foreign were better, for instance Petchu or Arnold ...

    Have in mind it's usually exaggerated in videos of class demos ... and you have to feel natural movement of your body to become pleasant, which doesn't happen while you try to force your body to do what you saw or what you think that you saw from the teacher ... you have to really relax ... until that, it's just boring stepping ... and your partner needs to feel natural movement of your body, until that, it looks/feels like a combat between the guy and the girl or like dry humping ... so most people quit doing that in my venue

    Anyway, I prefer more traditional version of kizomba with some tarraxinha over urban stuff, but that just my preference ... I actually don't dance it much anymore because rare followers here are dancing it anymore, most converted to some hybrid between urban kiz, french kizomba and local version of social foxtrot ....
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  6. LarsM

    LarsM Tumbao

    Hahaha, awesome description! :D
     
  7. Winston

    Winston Descarga


    Yes, exactly my experience. That's one reason I prefer salsa over kizomba. If your partner isn't good (yet) in salsa the combat-like experience is way less.
    Most ladies don't invest in mastering the tarraxa. That's a reason why urban kiz is done mostly on the dance floor. Although body waves and poses of urban kiz are also thing most ladies don't bother to learn well.

    Same with zouk. Almost no effort is put by most ladies on head movements. While that makes zouk zouk (at least one of the important aspects).
    Although the ladies admire the movements of the pro's and that is what inspires them to learn the dance,
    they lack willpower to put effort and time to learn to do it the proper way. That is why kizomba is not kizomba anymore.
     
    vit likes this.
  8. Marisha

    Marisha Tumbao

    nice...




    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
     
    Winston likes this.
  9. Marisha

    Marisha Tumbao

    I like them...
     
    Winston likes this.
  10. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    First; I do not know anything about K.
    The dance without the music looks suspiciously like a mix of T/Arg and American style BR Tango in their simplest form .Which again goes to prove the limitations placed upon constructing something "new " .
     
    Marcos likes this.
  11. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    You didn't miss anything (as you probably know) :D
     
  12. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Rear angle strikes again :p
     
  13. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

     
    Marisha likes this.
  14. Aurel

    Aurel Sonero

    I started with kizomba in september 2013 because similarly to @Winston's our scene is/was small and they used to play 2 timbas / 2 bachatas / 2 kizombas during the weekday socials and I was bored of having to sit down and wait till the next salsa comes.

    At first, I danced kizomba alongside cuban salsa, bachata, later on some zouk and linear salsa, but after a year I switched just to kizomba and danced only kizomba for almost 2 years. Since the beginning, the first ~3 years I took classes every week, and danced kizomba socially 4-7 times per week. I happen to live in a city (Bratislava) where we have 3-4 kizomba festivals every year, so I attended all of those for the last 3 years + some festivals abroad.

    In 2016 I returned to salsa, so I stopped going to kizomba classes and now have to decide between kizomba and salsa parties if they happen to be on the same evening. But I still attend all our local kizomba festivals and sometimes even abroad, and dance kizomba every week during socials.

    In case it's not obvious :troll: I dance primarily (traditional) kizomba and tarraxinha, just use some light urban-like stuff if the music really calls for it.
     
  15. Aurel

    Aurel Sonero

    If you prefer dancing urban kizz, than yes, I would expect you to find tarraxinha boring. Urban kizz is all about fancy moves and big movement and tarraxinha is usually quite the opposite. I love slow kizomba, so I'm much closer to tarraxinha and it fits the way how I think about kizomba dancing quite well. So I think it depends on the general preferences of the dancer and what it is that you actually enjoy about dancing.

    As for dancing the whole song just tarraxinha... some of my best and most memorable dances were pure tarraxinha, usually in a row with a girl for 4+ songs :D

    Exactly!

    One of the problems with the quality of (traditional) kizomba/tarraxinha dancing is that it's mostly about the connection and the body awareness. Especially in tarraxinha you have to be able to pick-up on the smallest movements and lead. Without it, it will become boring stepping from one foot to the other. But to get to the level where you can do that, it takes time and a lot of practice. However, beginners see just the outer shell of the dance, just the steps (of which there are very few), so every beginner thinks after couple of months that they know everything that's needed and now the dance should be enjoyable. Yet, they haven't even started uncovering the real dancing of tarraxinha behind that. So they get discouraged, because there isn't much .. or so they think.

    When I dance tarraxinha with some of my favourite dance partners, who are just soooooo amazing follows, there isn't a single beat on which I wouldn't lead something. There is always something, some lead, some movement, a change in stepping, weight-shift, slow-down or speed-up, change between soft and sharp weight-transfers and direction changes, height change, etc. I even change the position of my hands to communicate a different feeling, e.g. just a soft touch with finger tips on the spine to lead a small shy step vs. a more hug-like hold to spread a sense of calmness, or a sudden stronger hold reaching across the whole back to support a sharp direction change. And the follows respond with their musicality and any accents they want to put into their dancing, reacting to music. It never gets boring.

    When I dance tarraxinha with a beginner or mediocre follow I do maybe half of that, even less. Because if I would actually try to dance to every beat and everything I want to react to in the music, I would just overwhelm the follow. It just doesn't work and since we have chest connection I can't just do my thing because a follow who can not react to it just blocks the movement. It's very different from salsa where the better dancer can do a lot of stuff without disrupting the partner who might not yet be up to the challenge.
     
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  16. Winston

    Winston Descarga

    As far I can remember I have never had really good dances like this.
    Probably I don't know how to lead such moves? Or is there a lead anyway?

    My experience is that when I try to lead such moves there is no relation or connection to what I'm trying to lead and what the follow really does.

    So, what I do now is I slow down or stop, give her a little rub to signal that she is free to work her hips, and let my partner do her thing whatever she feels like.
     
    Marisha likes this.
  17. Winston

    Winston Descarga

    Just like @Aurel for me kizomba is closer to tarraxinha then to urban kiz. If I prefer to dance bigger to a kizomba song, most of the time it feels better for me to dance zouk instead.

    Of course there's music specific for zouk and specific for kizomba. But for the rest how I feel plays a key role.
     
  18. Marisha

    Marisha Tumbao

    Thank you guys for all your responses, Now I feel.... I am completely lost :oops: I know nothing about kizomba and urban kiz...I am a tree...but I want to be the follower from Aurel's description.

     
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  19. Marisha

    Marisha Tumbao

    Just do not look at it.:wacky:
     
  20. Aurel

    Aurel Sonero

    Well, there definitely is a lead. But the response of follows might indeed vary. The way I think about tarraxinha leading is that I often lead the direction, shape, speed, energy and mood, and the follow fills it with the actual movement. Sometimes I lead more the movement and perhaps even guide it.

    Part of it is that there really is no clear prescription of the kind: "I push this way in this spot and you react by performing that figure/movement", at least not in general, so it might work locally where everybody does the same but it definitely does not work internationally. So the leading seems to me more improvised and is really a reaction to the way our bodies (me and my dance partner) interact.

    Of course, there is basic physics and body mechanics, so you have a framework in which you can work. And because you have body connection, if the follow is relaxed and responsive, you can lead the movement by essentially restricting other ways, so she will move in the only way possible - thus is lead into the movement.

    I also find it very important to move myself. That means that I'm not just standing there, providing support, and moving my hands to lead. No. I dance either the same thing I want the follow to do (just keeping it smaller and manly :D) or I do the complementary movement (often like the mirrored version or the opposite) so that our bodies fit into a shape and by that I can achieve the lead.

    + in tarraxinha I get the best dances when we build the dance together. That means that I'm not necessarily leading everything but I give enough freedom to the follow so that she can do movement that she wants and I try to fit my lead into that. So for example if I have a follow who feels like doing some embellishment with bunda movement, I might hold her at the level of shoulder blade so that I don't interfere with her spine movement.
     
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