Is Kizomba just dry humping?

Discussion in 'Salser@s Anonymous' started by nowhiteshoes, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. hmijail

    hmijail Changui

    Vit, may I ask where did you get that info? I've rather heard the contrary (mild renaissance of proper kizomba/semba and french style being past its peak), but the truth is that I can't really pinpoint any source.
    On the other hand, this year it looks like AfricaDan├žar was full of french-style/kizomba 2.0/sensual-dubstep* wannabes, so... who knows.

    *Sensual-dubstep (C) (R) (TM). You heard it here first, folks!
     
    Aurel likes this.
  2. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    I've always thought of dubstep being sensual music..
     
  3. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    There was some kind of blog describing kizomba and at the end situation in Angola. Search for the topic "kizomba is dead" in this section, I posted a link

    Of course, I don't know how accurate it is, but I tend to believe it could be true. Of course, there are various venues there, so it is more alive in some places and less in other. And probably there is an occurrence of some kind of kizomba dance tourism, like it's the case with salsa in latin countries

    I didn't watch AfricaDancar last years, but it's a competition, so obviously people use the wow factor to place better, like in any other dance genre. AfricaDancar vs social kizomba is in the same relationship like dancing with stars with ballroom social dancing. However, competitions are influencing social dancing to some extent, because part of the people is watching them and then they want to do the same ...
     
  4. hmijail

    hmijail Changui

    OK, found the topic. Interesting discussion.

    I see anyway that it's mostly about kizomba maybe dying out but semba continuing. <breathes relieved> On one hand to me that's not so bad, to tell the truth, and to be sure a number of well-known teachers have been saying for years in congresses that "kizomba is just sensual/slow/basic/boring semba". On the other hand, semba seemed to arrive (to my zone at least) on the basis of kizomba, so if kizomba is perverted or rooted out, I wonder how semba will evolve. There's preciously little afro-house/kuduro here, too - but there is.

    Regarding the perverting of kizomba, I have a feeling that teachers who pump out patterns (which are most) are the guilty party here, and have been since forever. Once the market is convinced of the need for pattern-pumping, then those who can pump the most, win. And the ones who can pump the most are exactly those who are not stopped by tradition or even taste, ergo... french style, fusionists, Urban Kizouk.

    Brazilian Zouk is an admittedly synthetic dance, right? As in, teachers just designed and standardized it purposefully. At some point I thought that that might be the end game of french style, but doesn't seem to be happening.
     
  5. nowhiteshoes

    nowhiteshoes Pattern Police

    I've been doing Kizomba a week and already a purist so none of this new fangled urban Kiz for me lol :troll:
     
  6. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

    1. I love salsa, and I also love kizomba. They are so different. Salsa makes me happier and gives me energy but when I dance kizomba....it is pure meditation.
     
  7. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

    They are great!
    I also Like AfroLatino DAnce. For beginners, it is a nice place to learn and practice. Their kizomba teacher is brilliant. She pays attention to details and explains the idea of a certain combination.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  8. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    The question is how long can you meditate and with how many people/partners :D
     
    Marisha likes this.
  9. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

    I prefer to switch from kizomba to salsa and back again:)
     
  10. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

    Voila Beautiful Semba:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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  11. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

  12. Steph

    Steph Changui

    I've been dancing salsa and sensual bachata for many years now. And I love them both, particularly the sensual dances and how they feel with the music and how it contrasts to the fast music and beat of salsa. There's nothing I love more than to be able to switch between the 2 dances for their multiple and very different challenges as a follow.

    Everywhere I go there are constantly men who try to talk me into Kizomba. To be honest at the beginning, I really did not understand it. It just seemed like a cuddle party on the dance floor. There seemed to be nothing exciting about the dance at all to me.

    After years of wondering what this dance was about, I decided it was time to give in and try it out. I gave it a proper shot and set out to experience the movement for myself. I started with about 2 months of lessons. I was not an advance dancer by any means, but since I have a good sense of timing and weight shifting, it seemed like I picked it up at a reasonably level fairly quickly.

    Now atleast a dozen mixed dance festivals later, I admit I've only danced around a few kizomba dances for 30 mins or so at each festival. And now I've decided that it's definitely not the dance for me, and this is why...

    I've never once felt like the sleazy guys in Salsa or Bachata were uncontrollable. In Kizomba I feel like I'm waiting prey. The last time I danced Kizomba, the guy had a massive boner which he insisted on leading me to grind into. Thinking back on every man I have ever had try to "persuade" me into dancing kizomba, each and every one of them has felt sleazy and quite simply just been trying to lure me to the dance floor just to grind on them. I've never once experienced a "bachata or salsa boner", but it kizomba it appears to be rife. Almost the aim of the game. Also, the last time I was at a sensual festival a guy pretty much told me he sleeps with all of his kizomba partners - because the connection gets so much "better" afterwards. Now I don't want to judge, but I did think to myself, what a complete and utter bulls*** thing to say to try and lure young girls into sleeping with you.

    Now I'm pretty enough (not saying I'm a stunner) and I look fairly young. But in reality I'm actually not. I'm also not naive enough to fall for such a ridiculous statement from guys just trying to prey on young girls. The last sensual festival I was at, I was grabbed by a man, very hard on my wrists as he tried to yank me into the kizomba room whilst I used my whole weight to pull away from him leaving bruises on my wrists. Fair to say, I was unimpressed with this behaviour and for the first time in my dance life, I actually felt genuinely threatened. Like I could easily be followed back to my hotel room by a stranger.

    It really got me thinking - is this what the Kizomba dance scene is about? And if so, I want no part in it. All that I can think is that it's such an easy dance with such low barriers to entry, that it attracts men who are there for all the wrong reasons. And all in all this ruins what could be a very lovely dance scene for us all.

    I will stick to salsa and bachata. Here the men are mostly friendly, the teachers sound, and more emphasis is placed on the boundaries of the dance to keep it fun and safe and how it should be.

    For the young girls that are out there, be safe. Know your boundaries, and don't let dance flattery sway you into doing something you normally wouldn't. For those that love this scene for what it is, keep on doing what you love. It's just definitely not the dance for me.
     
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  13. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

    It depends on the place. Some night clubs with salsa, bachata, and kizomba have very strange guys. Once I went to very know club in Toronto, and I will never come back. Everything you described happened with me, but we all danced salsa and bachata. So, it is not about dance; it is about personalities and places. I am beginner kizomba dancer, so I do not have much experience, but all my experience is positive. Perhaps because I dance kizomba at socials after classes with students like me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  14. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

  15. Aurel

    Aurel Sonero

    Right there is the problem - mixed festivals.

    (disclaimer: I'll be talking about (traditional) kizomba. Urban kizz / french kizomba is different in that it is mostly about show, fancy steps, fake emotions and audience and as such has a different community and culture.)

    The problem is, that dancing kizomba is not easy. Yes, the steps might be easy to learn, but the steps don't actually make kizomba what it is. Kizomba is about feeling, being able to communicate mood and emotions through dancing, about connection. This is not easy to recognise unless you dance and learn kizomba for some time, because it's not visible to the spectators. As such, the dance attracts many wannabe dancers, who quickly pick-up the steps, think it's easy and start exploiting the physical proximity of their dance partner.

    And these bad wannabe kizomba dancers are everywhere. But it's difficult to spot them unless you actually know what to look for. And as a kizomba beginner you probably don't know what to look for. The wannabe dancers treat kizomba as a way to pick up sexual partners, because it is danced body-on-body and as such is a freeway for ulterior motives that would otherwise be difficult to hide dancing salsa or dominican bachata. And the very basics (the steps) of the dance are much easier to pick-up than salsa, so it's really low barrier for all the sleazy types you have surely encountered.

    Now, when you go to a mixed festival, it's probably not going to attract the hard-core kizomba dancers - the dancers who actually love the dance and treat it and their partners with respect. So the kizomba room inevitably turns into this dark-lit heavy-beat room blasting music with suggesting subtext occupied by predators who take their salsa/bachata victims partners into the kizomba room to seal the deal.

    The key to a good kizomba experience is finding actual kizomba dancers, people who are serious about it and are there to enjoy the music and dance. And the best place to find those is at an actual dedicated kizomba festival. If you happen to live in central Europe, I would suggest festivals (for traditional kizomba) like Toma-Toma in Bratislava, Budapest Kizomba Connection or Warsaw Kizomba Festival. There is also a number of good festivals in Portugal, Spain, Croatia, some in Germany, etc. (and of course a bunch of urban kizz festivals in France and Benelux, etc.)

    Of course, you can find the odd dancer everywhere, even at the dedicated festivals. But I do have a large number of female kizomba friends, and they would not be dancing kizomba if the sleazy guy leading with a boner was the norm.
     
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  16. Marcos

    Marcos Son Montuno

    Jesus! I guess I'm just too shy and too much of a gentleman and can't even imagine going up to a girl telling her about sleeping with my dance partners, even if shenanigans have happened a few times. When I've danced "right up on a girl" it's because she's pushed me to her.

    To me the music is garbage, sort of like reggaeton watered down with an R&B inflected Bachata singer. For all this talk about its Angolan origins I haven't heard a single Angolan track using Angolan instrumentation.

    Anyway the local Kizomberos will probably not be looking to invite me to their future events, as they mistakenly allowed me and my wife to bring our young kids in, who proceeded to start dancing, jumping, and screaming all over the small dance floor.
     
    SnowDancer likes this.
  17. Marcos

    Marcos Son Montuno

    I still get confused by that context "traditional kizomba". Does that mean they're playing Angolan music with Angolan instrumentation dancing how Angolans dance it?

    Just asking, because I would presume as far as Kizomba is concerned traditional=Angolan, and I've yet to see any Angolans dancing it nor any music played by them.
     
  18. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    It's of course Angolan popular music, based on some of their traditional music and heavy influenced by some imported genres, especially Caribbean zouk that came in 70s etc .... played on modern instruments like with other bands ... sure Angolans dance to it (or at least used to dance, because it looks like younger folks are not that much into music style of their parents anymore)
     
  19. Aurel

    Aurel Sonero

    First, the traditional is not to mean solely the old, the original or what the angolans dance at home. The word traditional is merely there to distinguish the kizomba that is actually kizomba from the urban kizz dance. The problem is that kizomba has become sort of umbrella term not only for kizomba - the dance that it was, but also for all the spinoffs like french kizomba, urban kizz, fusion kizomba etc. that keep it just for marketing. So nowadays when you go to a kizomba festival, you don't actually know if it is going to be kizomba or urban kizz. Because the urban kizz dancers for some reason keep stupidly insisting that they dance kizomba with a different style. You have to find out who the DJs and teachers are to be able to know what is going to be danced and played. So I use the term traditional kizomba to make it clear that I don't mean urban kizz and the other spinoffs. It's the same as with bachata. Bachata is also an overloaded term where you have a there is a huge difference between (dominican) bachata and the sensual bachata dance/music yet the sensual bachata dancers insist them still being bachata dancers for marketing purposes.

    (Traditional) kizomba is not just about Angola. It's more of a mixed influence of the popular music in the palop countries. So some of the music might be more traditional in the sense of inspired by semba, some of it is more about ghetto zouk, which is popular music in Angola & Cape Verde. The same goes for the dance, you have kizomba danced at house parties, in the street, and kizomba danced in clubs.

    And I have seen loads of angolans dance kizomba and it's not like they dance some obscure angolan-only dance that looks different. Here is e.g. semba danced in the streets of Luanda, and it's the same you would see danced on a (traditional) kizomba festival:


    Understandably, you have the old tracks, that sound different and newer music that is more westernized. There is however a huge difference between the music to which we dance (traditional) kizomba, and the music of urban kizz dancers.

    Also there is difference between how angolans dance kizomba at their home parties with family members and what is dances by people in Lisbon clubs. But again, it's still something completely different to what the urban kizz dancers do.

    Here is a small list of some old tracks (or newer songs with old sound to it) to which we still regularly dance at parties/festivals. These are kizomba songs, many of them were hits in the palop countries.


    Or a different take:
    https://soundcloud.com/dj-to-costa/to-totototo

    There are also some more traditional (in terms of traditional angolan music) sounding kizombas, that are often more similar to semba, and of course semba it self.

    There is also music that is shared between (traditional) kizomba and urban kizz, often it's ghetto zouk or tarraxinha.

    Contrast that to the more pure urban kizz music that is so often about instrumental music or remixes of pop and RnB songs:
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
    Marcos, Marisha, LarsM and 1 other person like this.
  20. Marisha

    Marisha Descarga

    Thank you for explanations, now I understand why my class called Semba/Kizomba. Additionally, thank you for song Marina:) It is about my name:p:D:rolleyes:
     
    Marcos likes this.

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