Interesting Clave Changes

Discussion in 'Salsa Music' started by salsamaniac4ever, Aug 9, 2016.

  1. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    If 0.57 is a clave jump then 1.10 could be classed as a clave hop.
  2. lol!
    DJ Yuca likes this.
  3. 1:40 clave jump
  4. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Sir.. I resemble that remark !
    DJ Yuca likes this.
  5. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    Ouch. The clave jump is at 2.37, however it sounds to me like someone edited the original tapes, and not very well at that. So the clave jump may well not even have been in the original recording.

    What's really painful is that at 0.10 the horns play a riff that is essentially the 3 side of the clave - whilst the song is on the 2 side. Torture to clave lovers. With those 2 errors plus generally low sound quality, this is one W Chirino tune that needs to be buried 6 foot under.
    Abraham R. likes this.
  6. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

  7. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    Obviously that should read: a nerds' paradise.
    terence and Abraham R. like this.
  8. Thought it was a clave jump at first because they are playing the clave but now I think whovever is playing the clave in the background is crossed

    DJ Yuca likes this.
  9. DJ Yuca

    DJ Yuca El Sabroso de Conguero

    That vid is no longer unavailable and I don't own a copy, so I'll have to wait until it reappears on Youtube to give you my opinion.

    (Incidentally I believe that group's version of El manicero is popular in Colombia, although personally I much prefer the Antonio Machín and the Alegre All Stars versions.)
  10. Crossed clave player at the beginning (music is 2/3 clave but he is playing 3/2). After there is ny style clave change but the clave player now aligns. Then some intresting stuff happens after.

  11. another crossed clave at the beginning

  12. arsenio123

    arsenio123 Son Montuno

    There is nothing strang about switching from sonclave to rumbaclave or reverse. In the original Son from the Oriente you will not find claves. Claves were added in Havana under the influence of Rumba, think of rumbero Ignacio Pineiro of Septeto Nacional. In a Son especially played like a guajira-son or a guaguanco-son you will hear different claves, in the last one guaguanco clave and sonclave. So it depends on what kind of Song they are playing which claves are being used.
  13. nobody said it was a problem or strange. But thanks i guess
  14. arsenio123

    arsenio123 Son Montuno

    Dear Abraham,

    As soon as you understand that Son and especially Son Montuno has a lot to do with Rumba which uses claves, sticks and rhythms, and montuno parts in their rumba songs, the switch is normal. They could not play Rumba which was forbidden, so you use something which looks very Spanish (guitars) and use a lot of rumba but disguised not immediately visible...

    And indeed thanks.
  15. so whats your point? This thread is more about switching from a 2/3 clave to a 3/2 clave either with the traditional style in which the clave rhyhm doesn't actually change. Or in the clave jump style or "clave license style. My point on the last 2 songs is that the clave player is crossed. Meaning the melody has a clave direction but the clave player is playing it wrong. Also I hope you aren't confused with what i meand by 2/3 3/2 clave. I know some cubans might refer to a rumba clave as 2/3 clave because it sounds like the first 2 hits are on the first half and the 3 hits on the second half. But thats not what i'm talking about. I know and can list many songs that switch from rumba clave to son clave and that is not what i'm talking about.
  16. arsenio123

    arsenio123 Son Montuno

    Switching is not abnormal. As soon a song is more complex i.e. guaguancoson you will hear guaguanco clave and sonclave together. You could conclude from my remarks that the sonclave came from the rumbaclave! Ignacio Pineiro started this and also Arsenio Rodriguez.
  17. jumping the clave in non timba music is rare though. And playing cruzado is also super rare! I know switching clave is not abnormal.
  18. arsenio123

    arsenio123 Son Montuno

    There is interesting information on crossing rhythms refering to clave in Wikipedia, a link:

    It is not easy to read....

    Ps; When Clave is derived from African bell patterns, it is not to difficult to understand that they played different bells and rhythms at the same time or crossing them!
  19. crossing rhythms is not the same as playing cruzado! lol. I have never met a musician who thinks playing cruzado is ok. You obviously don't know what we are talking about . lol! I'm not talking about polyrhythms or layered rhythms. Just stop!!

    Also there is nothing on there about jumping the clave or playing cruzado!

    MAMBO_CEC likes this.

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