Help! Salsa crush won't fade....

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by Biaja, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. Biaja

    Biaja Changui

    I totally get where you are coming from. I don't think of men as evil but I do think this particular one is bad for me.
     
  2. Salsa Bear

    Salsa Bear Sabor Ambassador

    Hmmm...interesting statement; I wonder if it's true.

    I would assume many, if not most, guys think of salsa (and social dancing in general) as a great way to meet women. However, I wouldn't categorize all those guys as "players," unless you want to call people who try to meet other people in class or in bookstores players, also.

    Nevertheless, I think there are far more creeps than the promoters want to admit. I think there's a lot of hustling going on behind the scenes. I certainly saw it when I was taking classes.

    The flip side is the amazing number of people who appear to be virtually asexual; they're there ONLY to dance, and they would never even date anyone from their scene.

    Talking to veteran dancers and instructors can be very revealing. One instructor told me my/our scene is really sleazy, with lots of cliques and back-stabbing. He called it a soap opera. To what degree that applies to other salsa scenes I don't know, but there's an awful lot of hype out there.
     
  3. Biaja

    Biaja Changui

    I've heard from many longtime salsa dancers that there is a lot of drama in the salsa scene, and that's why a lot of people opt only to dance and not to get involved with dancers. (And now I have become part of the drama, unwittingly). It is all very eye opening for me. I started salsa dancing to have fun and meet new friends. I was never expecting to meet anyone special, far less meet someone special who gives such mixed messages. I thought maybe this was something endemic to the salsa scene, so that's why I was posting here. I really never realized how sexy and romantic salsa could be and how easily it is to get swept away into a fantasy with certain people. I will guard my heart much more carefully from now on.

    I think this type of dancing is a little different for women because all the physical contact releases oxytocin, the bonding hormone, in women, similar to the way sex does. I don't think it's quite the same for men (but the men are free to correct me if I'm wrong). (As I've learned) a man can dance romantically with a woman for 2 hours, in closed position, staring into her eyes and holding her, and then just walk away without any residual feelings, except maybe appreciation for the dance. For many women, an evening like that stirs up their feelings and is meaningful to them - it's like foreplay. I'm trying to learn.
     
  4. Salsa Bear

    Salsa Bear Sabor Ambassador

    The alternative is to find a partner BEFORE you hit the dance clubs, though that can be very hard to do; kind of a vicious cycle. But that appears to be very common in some Latin scenes; someone commented on people in Miami often going out as couples. They thought the Miami scene sucked because of it. I guess it depends on which side of the fence you're on.

    A psychologist could have a field day studying the salsa scene. The salsa instructor I blew the whistle on is a soap opera himself - and even some of salsa's biggest stars fall for his BS.
     
  5. Biaja

    Biaja Changui

    It makes sense. Salsa is very sexually charged to begin with. Look at the women's attire, for starters. Women are attracted to strong male leads. And those men are on a quest to dance with better, younger, prettier, sexier, more skilled dancers. At least that's what I have observed and what I hear. It's the job of the woman to make the man look good on the dance floor. And then all kinds of women want to dance with him and some even throw themselves at him. It's like being a rock star. That type of power is very alluring. Several of the men I've danced with (and a few that I've gone out with once or twice) have mentioned to me about the other women they dance with - that they got this one or that one to dance with them. The really honest ones told me that it was because I made them look good on the dance floor.

    I think for a salsa relationship to work, both partners have to be very mature and committed and dance together a lot. Otherwise, the scene will tear them apart. I think it must be especially hard in the beginning phases of dating someone when you are not yet exclusive. But you have to see them out at the clubs flirting with other people when you are not yet gelled as a couple. I don't know how any couples can survive this phase. You have to be so detached.

    I have watched the guy I started this thread about become a more and more popular dancer. I've seen his confidence build and him branching out and dancing with more desirable women. It's hard to watch this with someone you have feelings for, because there is nothing you can do about it. I will not go down this path again, even if it means not dating anyone I dance with.
     
  6. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    No, the man is supposed to make the woman look good by adapting to her level and at the same time creating the best dance he can given her strengths and weaknesses, combined with his own.

    I recommend avoiding dancing with men who think a follow's job is to make them look good. And it is easy to recognize these "men" on the dance floor, I don't need to tell you how to identify them. ;)

     
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  7. Salsa Bear

    Salsa Bear Sabor Ambassador

    Holy cow, this is a spectacular example of how weird salsa can be. What you wrote [virtually your entire post] is 100% on target. It's COMMON SENSE.

    Yet most people on this forum cannot or will not say it. Either they're committed to defend the hype, or they're of a totally different mindset, so divorced from the rest of us that they can never understand what salsa's like for "normal people."

    Like I said, salsa would be a mind trip for a psychologist. But the weirdness can be intriguing, too. Visit my website and check out the Maria Lionza soap opera, which may have just begun. ;)
     
  8. Biaja

    Biaja Changui

    I was taught by veteran dancers and our mentor here that it is the job of the man to make the woman "feel" good (i.e., give her a fantasy for 5 minutes), and it is the job of the woman to make the man look good. The problem is that I don't want a fantasy. I want the real thing.

    But yes, it's true that a truly good male lead will make every woman look good on the dance floor. I have experienced these types of men when I was just a beginner, and they help build the woman's confidence. One of my early instructors was one such person. I danced with him for 5 minutes at a beginner salsa class, and he made such an impression on me. He is the reason I got into it more. I saw he was teaching a class, and I signed up. Whenever I dance with him at the club, we look like Dancing with the Stars. And yet, I know he dances with many women who are far more advance than me in their skill level. He just knows how to adapt to their level. But this is different from the effect of him making me feel like a million dollars. I think that is the job of a salsero - to make the woman smile and feel this way.
     
  9. Salsa Bear

    Salsa Bear Sabor Ambassador

    Again, common sense suggests (to me, at least) that BOTH partners would want to make the other partner 1) look good AND (more important) 2) feel good.
     
  10. Biaja

    Biaja Changui

    I know it's true, and there are e-books written on the subject by salsa instructors, so it's not just my paranoia. I love dancing but it puts me in a certain mindset of seducing men and feeling sexy. I have spent a fortune on salsa clothes in the past year, and I'm pretty broke. I have to detox from the scene every once in a while to remember who I am without all the hype. The thing is that no matter how sexy I feel and how seductive I can be with a man (I mean, my salsa crush has been mesmerized by me many times to the point where he couldn't stop dancing with me), there is always someone sexier, younger, prettier, or better in some other way. This is the nature of the scene. Unless both people are very mature, it's hard to resist the game - the women being all sexy, and the men trying to dance with the sexiest women in the room. It IS a game, and I don't think it's conducive for relationships, unless there can be a very strong connection off the dance floor. Because that kind of chemistry on the dance floor is very seductive.
     
  11. Salsa Bear

    Salsa Bear Sabor Ambassador

    I think the solution is to get rich, buy your own club and restrict the membership to your personal clique. Either that or visit Cali. ;)
     
  12. GForce85

    GForce85 Rhythm Deputy

    I'd be skeptical of a statement that indicts 90% of any population unless said population is very very small (feel free to disregard this if your scene is, in fact, very very small). Your second paragraph is true regarding all the attention and the allure of it, it's just I would be careful about letting that give you an instant negative opinion of most guys in the scene.

    .
    Again I would be careful with the blanket statements here. Some strong leaders fit that description, others don't care what the lady looks like as long as she has skills, and still others don't care about any of it and just go dance. What you're describing in terms of this sort of power trip stemming from attention tends to happen more around the time when a guy first begins to get reasonable lead skills as he starts getting away from that feeling of constant incompetence. I won't lie and say that everyone gets over it, but I can assure you that plenty of guys do as time goes on.

    What's the criteria for being a "normal person"?

    Amen to this.

    Biaja, I hate to hear that you have had this negative experience early on, but I want you to know that it's not all bad. I've had little to no drama for 6.5 years, and over that period of time I have gotten involved with 2 women in the scene (one of them being my current gf) and have tried unsuccessfully to get involved with several others that I still see around every now and then (we get along). If you can try to run with the right crowds and keep on being a good person yourself you'll have an easier time staying away from drama. Admittedly it can be a challenge to find the right crowd, but just try to stay observant and you'll eventually figure it out. Don't throw it all away over one guy.

    EDIT: This is unrelated to everything but is there no multi-quote function anymore? I loved the multi-quote function :(
     
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  13. MMaatttt

    MMaatttt Shine Officer

    No way are 90% of the men on the Salsa scene players, however 90% of the sexual/romantic attention women get probably is from players.
     
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  14. azana

    azana Super Moderator Staff Member

    "Be careful, my dear, that savors strongly of bitterness."
    Pride and Prejudice

    Hmm, I clearly inhabit a completely different salsa universe. If you're not enraptured by the music and love the dancing, then no, the salsa scene is not for you. I dislike salsa being thought of it as a place to meet partners for the sake of it. Go to a regular meat market pop club. I have the highest respect for the majority of men I have met and danced with through the salsa scene, and feel eternally comfortable knowing that when I go dancing, I will be surrounded by people who are into the music and keen to improve their dancing, rather than hit on me.
     
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  15. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura Maestro 'Sonero' Lavoe

    Despite your little black dress "phenomenon"? :p
     
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  16. MAMBO_CEC

    MAMBO_CEC Sabor Ambassador

    Which scene is my scene? Sleazy, backstabbing,cliques...sounds like a corporate boardroom!!!
     
  17. Salsa Bear

    Salsa Bear Sabor Ambassador

    LOL - Seattle is VERY corporate. The salsa scene is dominated by yuppies, and there are even several instructors who work for Microsoft. It ain't Cali. ;)
     
  18. Biaja

    Biaja Changui

    I suppose we all see the side we focus on. I'm probably a little jaded from my experience. Fortunately I don't need the salsa clubs to get my Latin music fix. I do Zumba every day.
     
  19. Salsa Bear

    Salsa Bear Sabor Ambassador

    Are you allowed to talk to people in zumba class, or are people there only to do zumba? ;)
     
  20. lastquestion

    lastquestion Changui

    jessssussss ffffffing christttttttttt arhghhhhhhhhhhhh - the scene is not dominated by yuppies. And what does being employed by microsoft imply? I thought we have all moved on from making fun of the "nerdy kids"....

    OK, feeling better now. Anyway, back on topic, biaja, i think that navigating this kind of stuff is part of the learning we all do when becoming dancers and going out.

    You're entering a new culture, with new rules, new expectations, that you don't get. Mix in the emotion, the hormones (all that exercising..) and the close contact (which in our western society is so rare...)... Finally, consider that salsa brings together people you'd likely never meet or interact with otherwise - this is actually one of the things I love about salsa.

    All this means - lots of learning. Treat it like a entirely new country. I know, you're in the USA, it's just "salsa night" at a club you've probably been to before on a regular pop music night. But it's not the same :) There are, I promise you, totally level headed, mostly drama free people. There are also people full of drama. Usually, in the "normal world", you've had 20, 30, 40 years of experience telling drama-full people apart from drama-free people. And you're pretty good and adept at associating with folks you'd like to be friends - rather then acquaintances - with.

    So - give it some time, be observant, and treat salsa club like a new country with a new culture that you aren't familiar with. You'll soon find people you'll connect with, be friends with, and are just the right kind of person for you. Just like gforce said:
     
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