Fiery or Chill Follows which do you prefer

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by Marisol, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. Marisol

    Marisol Changui


    Just wondering what the leads on salsa forums prefer a fiery follow like say Amanda Estilo with lots of sabor and style but might break lose into afro cuban shine when you don't expect it or a more chill dancer who follows your every move.
  2. RobotLion

    RobotLion Rhythm Deputy

    A follow is not a puppet, if she does everything I say and adds nothing, then I might as well be dancing with myself and I won't ask her again. It is like performing for someone as opposed to having a conversation with someone.
    thepresenceon2 likes this.
  3. ChristianKl

    ChristianKl Changui

    I don't like every dance to be the same. It's quite alright to dance on song at a heartbeat of 110 bpm with one follow and the next with 160 bpm.
  4. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    Both. And following every move does not mean chill; it means great awareness, attention and skill. Lot's of sabor and style does not mean wrestling either. :)
  5. RobotLion

    RobotLion Rhythm Deputy

    Following every move means a lack of creativity.
  6. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    Absolutely no. Unless you define creativity as highjacking only. Which would be unreasonably narrow and unrealistic definition.

    I suggest checking Ana Masacote's dances: how interestingly she interprets leads and follows them at the same time.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
  7. thepresenceon2

    thepresenceon2 Rhythm Deputy

    Absolutely disagree, just because a follower is following your every move doesn't mean that she's doing nothing else....

    MAMBO_CEC Capitán Del Estilo

    A fiery Amanda Estilo type every time (there is no substitute for lots of sabor!), they keep you as a lead on your toes ( As always know that there's possibility of a hijack if you don't shape up). IMO (only mine), they bring out the best in you as a lead, you can derive both inspiration and enjoyment just from watching her strut her stuff during the dance. The passive follow phenomenon is something that I have a hard time getting my head around, you've invested time and money to learn to dance, you've gone to ladies styling and footwork classes, why would you not want to express yourself on the dancefloor in a manner that makes it interesting and fun for both yourself and the lead as well. Also dancing with follows like Amanda makes you a better dancer, just my $0.02 worth.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
    thepresenceon2 and Smejmoon like this.
  9. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Problem is with the definition. Chill has not being defined properly. I seen Amanda Estillo dance so I can get what poster means by fiery. But I don't consider Amanda Estillo to be fiery.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014

    MAMBO_CEC Capitán Del Estilo

    I don't know what/who you would regard as fiery? I totally get what the OP means. I wish when people are contraire that they would give examples of what they are being contraire about. Do you think Alien is fiery? Do you think Delia Madera is fiery, Do you think Desiree Godsell is fiery? The two young Santo Rico ladies? To me an example of a chill follow would be karel Flores and Amely from France. please gives us your version of fiery and chill. Maybe you could use some clips to back up your definitions.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
    Slowdance likes this.
  11. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    I thought about giving an example of what I would consider fiery. Nothing came to my mind. When I see a video I will let you know. I have seen some serious fiery dancing by different followers at LA congress and others. I don't know their names. I don't know Alien or Delia or Desiree or two Santa Rico or Amely. Among your names the only one I know is Karel. That is why I said the problem is with definition. Do you consider Magna to be fiery or chill? I think it is neither. My definition of chill - the mambo king Eddie Torres himself. Just watched him last night at the congress. He is always chill :) My definition of fiery - Maykel Fonts (he usually is) and I admire his fieryness (I don't equate it with his sexy dancing card).

    Amanda is a fantastic dancer. the only attribute that OP has said of her is sabor. To me you can be fiery or non-fiery with or without Sabor. Long time ago I had opportunity to hangout as well as watch Amanda dance. Both at home as well as in clubs.
  12. bailar y tocar

    bailar y tocar Clave Commander

    Seems to me like some of the replies are referring to how a follow feels to the lead (the person himself) and others are posting what they look like in video clips.

    I don't believe there is a significant relationship between how it feels to dance with someone versus what it looks like on a videoclip. Most of what one can feel is not visible and most of what is visible is not felt.

    I have had many a fantastic dance with follows who (if there were a videoclip) appear to "just" follow. There is so much more that is happening though. A lot of creative things that happen, start out because my dance partner initiates even though she is "only" following. Suddenly we are doing something that I didn't know was going to happen.
    Slowdance and Chris_Yannick like this.
  13. Marisol

    Marisol Changui

    [​IMG] Here's a clip of one of my favorite dancers Amanda Estillo, the video is funny towards the end. I know fiery and chill have very different meanings to every lead.

    I guess I was curious what other leads perceive and enjoy in a dance more although I know variety can be exciting. I finished all levels of following On2 so I started leading On2 but I have been leading On1. Not comparing the two styles at all but more the types of follows that were in both groups are so different in how they dance.

    When I started leading, my class was mostly very thin petite women with not much body movement who in the beginning had spaghetti arms and expected me to dance for them.Through the levels the follows became very light, great at spinning, nice arm styling and very easy to lead.

    Now that I am leading as a woman a new group of follows who are curvier, some very tall and most of all they have a fiery persona that really challenges my lead. It so fun but it keeps me on my toes and very different from the previous follows. I am a very fiery dancer so it's made me see how a lead would feel dancing with me.
    Smejmoon likes this.
  14. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    I believe that's a personality and skill, though. Of course it's easier to manhandle the petite little being than someone heavy and strong, but many heavy and muscular dancers are very precise and light followers. But the little thing can be a mean fighting machine too. Except she'd get hurt in process (and they unfortunately do get hurt in salsa).
  15. Slowdance

    Slowdance Descarga

    With the confusion between visual vs tactile in mind, I guess I prefer chill. I do try to spend plenty of time in a free connection (no contact) so that a follow can groove and shine and interact with me some that way. But when a follow hijacks, or performs certain types of styling when I am leading, it just confuses the hell out of me.

    Perhaps my skill level is just too low right now, but when a follow hijacks, vs doing something I didnt expect in response to a lead, I can't distinguish between the two. I just assume I screwed up somehow. If it keeps happening, I assume that I am continuing to screw up, or that my skill is too low, or that we dont have dance chemistry.

    Also some styling actually makes leading harder for me at my present ability. One lady I dance with does this style thing where she kinda lifts her rear and resists my lead as a style thing, resists against any movement down the slot. She does this around count "4" (we do LA / On1), but she continues to do it (or she isnt finished) through count "5" or "5&" and so if I am giving her any form of crossbody lead, its actually unpleasant for me. Sometimes, I forget she does it, only exert the amount of lead I would use normally, and it almost knocks me down, or throws me off balance. If I do remember, I have to *make* her go, and *making* her go makes me feel rude. And if I wasnt actually doing a CBL then its just a disaster. :)

    I am not calling her out; we are friends, she is a good dancer; this is just the first example that came to mind. She may be doing stuff thats perfectly valid and maybe I am just doing something entirely wrong. But this is the kind of "fiery" style that confuses me to no end. I have no clue if I am leading this wrong, if I am unskilled, or what.

    So I guess I like someone who is chill when I have any kind of physical connection, and fiery when we have a free connection (free-styling). I just try to give the follower plenty of freestyle time. That is all my mind and body can handle at my current level. :)
  16. sunsoul

    sunsoul Shine Officer

    I think it might also depend on what time of night it is.. I like both types, really. If the follow has a good connection then I can enjoy dancing with them in different ways.
  17. calichris10

    calichris10 Sabor Ambassador

    I think its nice for a follow to be able to be both, depending on the music..some songs are chill, some are fiery. Your dance should express the music.
  18. alvinthethird

    alvinthethird Nuevo Ritmo

    this. i wouldn't expect the same response dancing to say...buscando guayaba versus indestructible.
  19. Salsa Student

    Salsa Student Pattern Police

    Unless she's using excessive force or is off time, this should give you an opportunity to get a nice rubber band effect for going down the slot. I quite enjoy it when the follow does it.
  20. Slowdance

    Slowdance Descarga

    I dont want that effect unless I need it. It makes the dance uncomfortable for me when I dont expect it. When I dont need the extra energy, it seems to work against whatever I may have been doing instead.

    Oh well. Grin and bear it, I guess. But it always confuses me for a half a beat or so because I think I did something wrong. :)

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