Differences between Cuban Salsa and Casino on the dance floor

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by TomSchueler, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    Hmm that's strange about br cha and rumba.




    By the way the above video (that we have been referencing) is wrongly dated. It's actually from the 60's not 40's. And the couples are both dancing son, not casino. Either way my earlier point about the dile que no still stands.
     
  2. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    It is documented that he visited Cuba 1947 and had dance lessons with other couple from the video. And he died 1963
     
  3. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    I understand. My point is simply that the differences are not as big. It is a matter of choice that dictates the style.
     
  4. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    Yes I believe 1947 was his first visit. You can tell the video is not from the 40s because of wiring that was used for television reception in the 50s in Cuba which are visible in the video. He made two trips in the 50s in 1951 and 1953. Most likely the video was filmed during one of those trips, before he died in ,'63.
     
  5. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    Sorry my error! Actually the basic for international rumba is like diamanté, not the son basic. Kind of a hybrid between diamanté from son and casino and the box step from danzón actually.
     
  6. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    The International rumba basic actually is like forward forward together. Back back together. Like a diamond or rhombus. I looked it up. Kind of a hybrid between the box step that was used in danzón and the rhombo from son. I was in error that it was identical to the son basic, but it is almost identical to the diamond/rhombus that was first seen as a box step in danzón and later in son in a slightly different way.
     
  7. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Double post
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  8. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    The Intern style is NOT Fwd, Fwd "Together " . Its danced in an "open " box, with 3rd step taken slightly sideways ( Like Bolero, which I feel sure was/is, its template ). Its also prepped commencing with the right foot fwd ,whereas Danzon commences with LEFT Fwd into the box .

    The above format, is what I ( and all English teachers ) have been dancing and teaching , for over 60 years .

    And yes, the Danzon " Box " basic, is , In all likelihood, the template for several social dance styles , from Amer. style Rumba ,to todays Mambo/salsa.

    The major differences, stylistically ,are the musical styles ,which did eminate in most cases, from Son .

    As a matter of note ; the Intern. style Rumba, was initially taught as ,"commencing SIDE with the right foot," and the more forward direction with the right foot , eventually came into vogue .
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
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  9. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    One other point ;The importance of "date" is, to some degree, irrelevant. More to the point, is her statement, of WHEN they 1st visited Cuba, which as stated, was 1947.
    Now, I can give you empirical evidence, as to when the changes in the UK, went from Square to the open style,1948, as I personally went thru them, at that time period.


    PS,, their choice of music for the demo, was more a Bolero speed.
    I mentioned this in the past, that I had the pleasure of being invited by Doris, to the UK championships at the Hammersmith Palais, in 1983 whilst on a visit from the States .

    We chatted about primarily the BR style.

    And my business partner, took a few lessons with her, in Rumba
     
  10. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    Oups, my teachers taught me the commencing side!
     
  11. Peason

    Peason Son

    What I noticed in the video of 47, 60's, 50's Pierre and Lavelle, was that girls are sometimes let backwards (especially in closed position).
    I thought that proper cuban dancing only makes the follow move forward?
     
    vit likes this.
  12. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Not unusual. It used to be a much larger side step that, has gradually diminished and still to the side.
     
  13. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    That depends upon the style, and even then, it's a moot point .
     
  14. Peason

    Peason Son

    That is what I always thought.
    But it was stated that the video shows a DQN as done in casino.
    Which made me to believe that the video shows us proper casino dancing from the 40's / 50's.
    In another video within this thread, it is stated that good casino has the follow always moving forward.
    But the vintage video clearly shows something different: casino dancers with the follow moving backwards.

    So, either Pierre and Lavelle are not dancing casino.
    Or, casino was/is danced with followers also going backwards (unlike what some have been stating as not done).
     
  15. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    Yeah, I noticed that too, but MCC students and fans somehow ignore that, because it doesn't fit into their theory of dancing being natural and optimized to the maximum, unlike all other dances that are, well, not that natural and optimal ...

    We need to have in mind that Pierre learned from some kind of Cuban dance champion in what they called "cuban rumba" (which was a kind of export name covering various dances as I understand), and as we know, competitive and performance dancing never fully reflect social dancing. It's not much different in that Yanek's clip from casino competition posted here a few times, we have various elements that are not used that much in social dancing in Cuba, although things obviously change ...

    Story about casino started about 10 years after that clip, depending whether the year is accurate or not. However, it is stated that Pierre brought cha cha cha from later visits, so year might be ok, besides that, a few years more or less don't matter much. Maybe he just filmed what he learned on his previous visit or so ...
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  16. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    As I stated, a "moot" point.
    In "dance " theory, there should be, particularly in the basic concept, a good technical reason WHY things work better and enhance performance.

    No one ,as I know of as of yet, has stated WHY break directions are not , or should not, be used in Casino. And, to keep the "flow " is not a technical response. Same rule applies to Son ( NO fwd breaks ) .
    Another often stated reason is, " Music/Dance " advances. This begs the question ; do the changes ( or not ) improve the status quo ?.
    Tango Arg. has gone thru many changes in style, and the same types of disagreement exist.
    Modernisation of music, certainly can affect dance interpretation, sometimes for the good, others, not.
     
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  17. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    Not in son. Son travels backwards. The reason casino does not is because it was optimized for ruedas and changing partners. And Pierre is dancing son, not casino. So of course you see backwards travel.
     
  18. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    Yeah, I mean when he filmed didn't matter much I was just pointing out the video definitely isn't from 1947.

    Yes it's true that not all dancers dance the most efficient and optimal way and casino is not the only dance where you find that to be true but in the case of MCC it is a method designed to teach the most efficient and optimal ways of dancing. So what is there to criticize about that?
     
  19. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    Your assumption is correct. They are not dancing casino. They are dancing son.
     
  20. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    Well ... I was taking classes from many dance teachers in several genres and many of them were claiming what they teach is optimal and all of them had their arguments why it is better than doing it other ways ... so for me it's just one of teaching methods with various strong points and some faults ... I don't remember that I was criticizing it
     
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