Differences between Cuban Salsa and Casino on the dance floor

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by TomSchueler, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. Marcos

    Marcos Son Montuno

    They do refer to Cuban sandwiches as "sandwich Cubano", so I could imagine an infinitesimal probability they would call it that. My only point of reference for Cuban dances being taught far outside of Cuban and Hispanic communities where terms are generated by non-Hispanic dance instructors to describe to their non-Hispanic students how Hispanics dance, all come from history books such as Ned Sublette's, hence I framed my question the way I did.

    What's interesting is that Terence appears to be on that end (taking an educated guess here), where he learned these dances in the absence of Latinos, and so distanced from that original non-Latino who came up with that term that he doesn't realize that Latinos who are born and raised in Latinamerica don't use it among themselves, and he has a hard time explaining to us.

    For everyone's info, the caviat "born and raised in Latinamerica" is a proper an inoffensive one to use when talking to Latinos, since people such as my US born cousins are just as culturally integrated as US born children of Germans, Russians, or Italians (I always asked these folks to produce their passports to prove to me they were actually Germans, Russians, or Italians).
  2. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    You could not be farther from the truth !..ALL my latin ( dating back from the 50s ) was really learned ( dance wise ) from my latino amigos , mainly PR, and later on from Cubanos , in nite clubs. I abandoned my BR version socially speaking but had to retain that style for teaching purposes whilst working for studios.

    Independantly. I NEVER taught that style and to this day still not . My social style in BR is all of the American variety which I teach here in the UK, and my latin is all of an indigenous nature..

    I actually got invited to one of my Soc. Prof. congresses in the UK to do a lecture and demo on the Amer. style BR. It was taken on board by other studios, so I am told. I WISH it had been the latin !!

    As to explanations, I can get as technical as you wish but not really on a forum , as the nuance of teaching is absent. And, HOW does one teach "feeling " ?.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  3. Marcos

    Marcos Son Montuno

    OK, let me re-phrase. Did you learn that one specific term "Cuban Motion", from a Cuban, another Hispanic, or a non-Hispanic? And if that person was a non-Hispanic, did they themselves learn it from a Hispanic?

    Feeling describes something that has a technical meaning in the end. Whether you're talking about nerve impulses, dopamine responses, cornea stimulation, etc. The key is in figuring out how that feeling emerged and explain that, or the layperson's version of it. Of course, while you were learning in the 50s these facts were not so well disseminated amongst laypeople, and even today too many people watch more Kardashians than Neil Degrasse Tyson.

    Scientists have even technically mapped out the brain activity that causes the feelings devout religious people feel when they attend services.
  4. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    I never implied that was the case. I was speaking primarily about usage in " dance ".

    terminology in dance is there for a reason, where their origins arose from is inconsequential as they do serve a purpose of uniformity. Ironically, the word pays homage to the genre .And does it really matter where it originated ? or do you find it offensive ? and if so, why ?.. Or are we into polemics ?..

    Feelings, to my way of thinking is an abstract that words do not express when applied to specific actions in dance. If you are capable of this then more power to you ...
    Offbeat, Marcos, LarsM and 1 other person like this.
  5. Marcos

    Marcos Son Montuno

    I'm not offended, I'm curious. I personally find it pays better homage to use the terminology that came from within the genre by its creators. It seems very peculiar to pay homage to anyone by failing to use the terms they came up with. In some cases like the previously mentioned Sandwich Cubano, or the Mayorca pastry and Plato Paisa that's the actual name of the thing. I was trying to discern if that was the case with what you referred to as Cuban Motion, which you should have caught onto as I specifically brought up the Sandwich Cubano as an example.

    Are you familiar with the Sandwich Cubano? It's even sold with that name in Puerto Rico in the absence of Cubans.

    When I find out what Cubans themselves call it, that's what I'll call it to pay homage to them.
  6. manzanadulce

    manzanadulce Sonero

    @Dissonant Harmony 13x?? damn u need a higher salary or a cheaper teacher. :p
  7. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    I am pretty sure that the term Cuban motion probably originated in BR world or isn't something that most Latin people would have used or invented. It probably invented by outsiders to describe that which comes naturally to Cuban/Latin dancers.
    MAMBO_CEC likes this.
  8. Peason

    Peason Son

    I have seen plenty of Latin dancers that are not Cuban motioning. So I doubt it comes naturally to them.
    LarsM, Live2dance and MAMBO_CEC like this.
  9. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Thinking logically, IF one witnessed that action in Cuba,as they danced, would you not then ascribe the name "Cuban " motion to the action ? . And whomever adopted it is of little consequence, the fact that it is a descriptive term is really all that matters.
    LarsM likes this.
  10. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Agree. That was my point as well. Labeling things helps.
  11. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Of course not. 'Natural' in a sense who are up dancing or had much better dancing skills. Watching what looks good and trying to imitate it, without formal training is one way people pick up skills naturally.
  12. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    I wouldn't agree with that. For instance, yesterday we had exceptionally mixed cuban and linear salsa party, so I could see again local people from both styles and several Cubans that live here (that are, of course, avoiding linear salsa parties), gathered on the same floor (another nice thing - only 1 kizomba during whole night)

    The fact is - they groove to the music different way than local people (meaning standing beside the floor, not dancing in the couple but just moving to the rhythm), even if those local people dance only cuban salsa. Their movement is rhythmically different, their stepping is different and reflection of that stepping to the body action is different. It is the essence of "cuban movement" or whatever the name. They are dancing the same way they are grooving. I mean, it's not that difficult to come reasonably close to that, problem is just that local "cuban salsa" teachers are not "reasonably close" either, they are teaching casino moves (and some of the recently something similar to rumba, if watched from the distance big enough). So again, I ended dancing only with (local) girls that are used to dance with Cubans as well (it was 3-4 followers out of say 50) and have relatively compatible body movement, so they actually danced only with those girls

    You live in the States, maybe those differences are smaller there because of bigger latin population
  13. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Problems of writing on phone's small screen with autocorrect interfering! What I was writing is:

    Of course not. 'Natural' in a sense those who grew up dancing or had much better dancing skills. Watching what looks good and trying to imitate it, without formal training is one way people pick up skills naturally.

    Everything above was written in context of those who grew up dancing and had better skills to learn by imitations (since they had no formal training). Their dance skills were acquired organically through exposure to other good dancers. This was all in response to the statement that many Latinos don't have good or any Cuban motion.

    I don't know know what you are disagreeing to.
  14. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Ok, Peason's post that you commented was about "latin dancers" in general, that could mean whole latin america, while mine was about Cubans, because it's where "latin dances" are a kind of originating. However, I think that the way how people groove to the music isn't strongly connected with do they actually dance (whether casino in their case or some local social dance in case of my area) and how good their skills are, it's something almost "natural" to them (of course they are not born with it). So when I see local people dancing, it always looks like local social dance, just with salsa/WCS/BR/AT/zouk moves ... just like Cubans always look like dancing casino, even if it is kizomba ...
  15. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Okay what you are basically saying is : depending on where person grew up (or originates), their body moves in a 'certain' way, which is influenced by the traditional dance/music of that area. So when they dance something else, their body movement continues to move in that 'certain' way though the dance may be very different.

    I agree with that.
    vit likes this.
  16. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    There are probably several reasons, some of them even in slight differences in anatomy we are born with, specific to particular area, that actually makes some moves more natural than other for particular group, and it's not only traditional dance/music but overall way of living / moving / doing usual daily activities etc ...
  17. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    I don't think anatomy can be cited as a rationale for area as small as Cuba or any or the Latin American countries. The similarity in regional anatomies probably requires a rather large area where the population has evolved without a lot of outside interfence in the gene pool. A place like Cuba or DR is a mix of people from different originating regions (Europe, Africa and America).

    I can't see overall way of living/moving/doing usual activities contributing to particular style of body movement when dancing. I say that because if I look at a completely different regional dance forms which are 10,000 miles removed, the ones that grew up dancing have similar dance movements, while those who didn't can't replicate it easily without a lot of effort. Everything else is common for both groups. Same language, same place, same food, etc.
  18. timberamayor

    timberamayor Maestro 'Guaguanco' Rodríguez

  19. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    They don't dance the same way either I suppose

    What I mean - there are various reasons why people move different way, some more important, some less ...
  20. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Never seen a site being blocked based on IP (unless it related to license content). Here is the reason I get from the website when I clicked on the link:

    Block reason: Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator.

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