Dancing with latinas who are untrained

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by isaacjunk, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    It's to be expected that our experiences are different, as we learned from different teachers
  2. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    Indeed, you are right. My experience was 0 out of about 15 male salsa "teachers" in 4 different countries. Perhaps I had a very limited sample number.
  3. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    AVENTURA was HUGE in the United States during their existence. I don't know from what vantage point you were on when they were around, but they were certainly recognized by both U.S. born audiences and by the U.S. based music industry. You're welcome to show how exactly you came to the conclusion you made and I'll gladly rebuttal with some real proof of Aventura's success. A U.S. market success which prompted the lead vocalist [Romeo Santos] to go solo. The ONLY reason he would have done so. The U.S. market dictates such things. Otherwise, WHY go solo if the actual group you're a part of doesn't "hit" in the most important market in the world. The richest and most influential market in the world.

    Your analogy fits a group like the Spanish Harlem Orchestra. Or Larry Harlow and the Latin Legends. Rock Stars in other countries, but can't get arrested in the states. That isn't to suggest they don't perform in the USA, but they themselves will tell you that the "love" is much grander and greater abroad and outside U.S. borders than within. And that is only NOW, in 2017.

    BTW-With that said, the Spanish Harlem Orchestra will be performing in NYC in April [Private function], May [West Gate Lounge) and June [Lehman Performing Arts Center] and Larry Harlow and the Latin Legends will be performing in NYC in the month of May for a weekend long residency at the Blue Note Jazz Club on Bleecker Street, NYC.

    I'm going to take responsibility for what I express. Not for what you understand. If you interpreted what I wrote to represent that I, a proud Latino, would be "de-latinizing" "Salsa" with my comments about how dance studio trained students of cultural expression are getting on a high horse and deciding that what they do on the social level is authentic or even "trained," as opposed to a couple of women who hail from Latin America and don't meet a dance studio technique's standards, which is nothing more than less than a handful of movements, when to break, etc., then that's on you. My post clearly doesn't convey what you've just stated it to represent. I should be pretty clear that I am debunking your idea that "most girls from Latin America" aren't trained to dance 'Salsa.'

    That's Christopher Columbus talking. It takes two to tango. Let's hear from those women who were the targets of your ire and what they have to say about their experience with you on the dance floor. I'm pretty sure they're going to have another kind of opinion.

    Anyone who is actually "trained" wouldn't have an issue dancing with anybody. Because culture is not 2,3,4 - 5,6,7. That's for people who desire structure. Who desire a guide to follow. For folks unwilling to let go and rules be damned and just express themselves... however or whichever way the "spirit" moves them. There's nothing wrong with structure or discipline. But that doesn't make you anymore superior or certainly not "trained" because a person expresses themselves in a manner that deviates from what you were taught. That might make "sense" in a Dance Studio social in the USA, but the original poster wasn't actually dancing in a dance studio in the USA, were they?...

    Would you care to share how Salsa is MORE of a cultural heritage of the United States, a whole lot more than it would be or is in many Latin American countries? There's more Puerto Rican in the U.S. than there is in Puerto Rico. Which group do you think has a stronger, more "nationalistic" fervor for the music? It's the tiny island in the Antilles, overshadowed by Cuba, Haiti and the Dominican Republic. It should be obvious why that is the case. But you seem to be so sure of yourself. I'd be interested in reading why you believe what you wrote.

    It's too bad you weren't around a long time ago. But in 2017, "Salsa" is so not perceived as the cultural heritage of the United States. Not by a long shot brother. It's one thing to be a fan or have a deep passion for it. It's quite another to interpret or translate your passion into conveying an unrealistic reality. Colombia, Peru and Puerto Rico, to name just three, are countries that have truly adopted the canon of Cuban Popular Music. It's governments are advocates of the musical culture. It recognizes its artists. It's innovators. It's legendary figures and its contemporary practitioners. They have instituted an annual "National Day" devoted to Salsa. They have ceremonies to publicly recognize them. They build statues to honor them. They have media that programs nothing BUT "Salsa." They also support the "living" culture. Producing and financially supporting festivals and free concerts on a regular basis. They have a Hotel industry that books or contracts "live" orchestras.

    The United States has no such advocacy or support for "Salsa."

    "Salsa" in the U.S. is held up by the private sector. By promoters. By people who volunteer to work for free of charge and devote themselves to broadcasting the music, and offer other related content on a weekly basis over public radio. This music is not featured in any great way on either commercial television or radio. It's not in mainstream big budget films. It doesn't get recognized on air during industry award presentations broadcast over mainstream television (Grammys, Billboards, American Music Awards, etc.). No "Salsa" artist is endorsing any sort of commercial for-profit product in the USA. And even the Salsa Congresses and dance socials deviate from making "Salsa" THE featured element at their event. Bachata & Kizomba have now become a standard part of the dance experience one will have available to them at a "Salsa" dance event.

    No one is saying "Salsa" isn't something you can't embrace or make a part of your cultural identity as a non-Latino. What you can't do [whether you are a non-Latinx or a Latinx) is point your finger at a Latinx and state so emphatically that you got it together moreso than [fill-in-the-blank] do. "Salsa" is inclusive. Not to be co-opted into an elitist package revolved around dance instruction. "Salsa's" very essence is "chaotic order." The music is polyrhythmic in that different things are happening at once, all intended to produce ONE sound. Dance is very much the same way. It's not just memorizing the arsenal of moves that were taught in class. But taking that dance lesson and reimagining it with your very own creativity, but with the ability to "resolve" yourself and find your place back in the "lesson plan." Back in the fold. In sync with the music and with your partner. The same way a pianist or any other improviser does with the music. The dancer is the music. And music is free. Art is freedom to express. "Trained" is for the ballet. This is "Salsa."
  4. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    Ironically, I've had a much different experience or perspective. From where I was standing, Bachata was popular in the mid to late 1980s and, especially throughout the 1990s. And on a commercial level mind you. Moreso than "Salsa Dura" was. Or the On2/ET2 style dance scene, which was being nurtured in the 1990s at certain clubs on certain days of the week or weekend. All the nightclubs in NYC that programmed or catered to Latin American culture, whether in Queens, Washington Heights, Downtown, the Bronx, Harlem, Brooklyn and even nearby New Jersey, at the very least, were dancing to "Victor Victor," Juan Luis Guerra, Anthony Santos, and a slew of others. It is for that reason that a young group such as AVENTURA emerged in the 1990s of NYC. Dominican Yorks. Dominicans born in the United States and in NYC, in particular. Why would they have gravitated to such a music is it was repulsed by a majority of the consumers?

    While the On2 crowd would empty out the dance floor when a DJ would put on a Merengue at a dance social, guess what was happening outside in the nightclubs and lounges where the mainstream public could be found at? A Merengue came on and EVERYONE was dancing. A Bachata would come on, and that was yet ANOTHER excuse to grab a girl (from the male perspective) and get your groove on. Both were the easiest dances in the world. More people flocked to it from my POV than they were with the Tito Puente music. That's just a fact. Instruction in the 1990s was growing, but not yet a recognized necessity by the younger generations. (Today is much different and instruction is perceived as much as being a physical workout as going to a gym. It's just another form of exercise than an actual "social" construct that makes up the nightlife). And I would also venture to say that's all over. Whatever is easiest to engage in is where the numbers will be larger.
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  5. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    You're looking at it from a generational standpoint. The same way "Salsa" purists and even "historians" do. If today "Salsa" is a world wide phenomenon, it is in large parts due to the USA is only partially accurate. The USA has also benefitted from Latin American artistry and a Latin American immigration that has helped to fuel the commercial industry, as well as create a pro-active scene on the local level of cities in the United States. It has always been a give and take. And it still is.

    Don Azpiazu, a band from Cuba, comes to the USA in 1930 and both performs and records, and returns to Cuba. Only to return and later make its way around Europe. But their impact influences the U.S. popular music industry of the era to re-record EL MANICERO. Duke Ellington, Red Nichols, Louis Armstrong, etc. All their respective orchestras record the tune. It's a hit in the U.S. and Europe.

    Eliseo Grenet was playing in Paris, France in 1935 at a nightclub where he was performing his brand of Afro Cuban music with his orchestra, and later came to NYC in 1936 and was among the first Afro-Cuban music composers and band leaders to hold a residency on Broadway. But before any of this, he was an active musician in Cuba throughout the 1920s and early 1930s.

    Damaso Perez Prado was a musician in Cuba during the late 1930s and early 1940s. He made his way to NYC in the mid 1940s. Then worked briefly in Puerto Rico in 1946. Then finally to Mexico in '47, where he became a sensation in that country with his debut release as a leader in '48. He is then signed by a U.S. record label in 1949 and offers up the same brand of music he had been doing in Mexico. He then hits Europe and tours throughout the continent. Makes his way back to the USA and later Latin America and repeats the process all over again.

    The same scenarios can be attribute to hundreds of other artists. It's a little one-dimensional to simply say that the United States is the reason why everyone around the world knows about "Salsa." Every generation produces a brand "new" audience to this music. For many people, the Buena Vista Social Club was their introduction to the music. For many people in Europe, bands from CUBA were their introduction to what we identify as "Salsa." For people in South or Central America, or even Europe, artists ranging from Colombia to Africa are responsible for introducing them to what we identify as "Salsa." For someone in NYC, their initial exposure to "Salsa" was music being recorded in or performed on television produced in Puerto Rico. Which is what happened with me.

    "Salsa" is embraced around most of the globe because music with clave has always had a presence around most of the globe, throughout the 20th century. Going back to the first modern Sones in the 1920s to the "Mambo" era of the late '40s to the mid-1950s, and to the "Salsa" era of the late 1960s through the present day. "Salsa" is simply a name or label for a movement or musical tradition that has been happening for a very long time. The USA is certainly one of the most important centers of this activity for no other reason than because it is in the U.S., and NYC in particular, where the modern day recording industry as it became known as, began in NYC. Every artist from Cuba, Puerto Rico, Colombia, etc. traveled to NYC in the 1900s-19teens-1920s-1930s, to record a 78rpm. Cuba doesn't have its own home grown record label until the early 1940s. The Panart label. The majority of the Puerto Rican popular songbook is recorded in the U.S. by the time the first record label emerges in Puerto Rico. That doesn't mean that the sun set or that the sun shined solely in NYC or the USA for that matter. RADIO was the X-Factor. Unlike the last 60 years, there were no LPs in the 1920s to the 1940s. So a 78 rpm wasn't enough. There was demand to experience music beyond those singles that were released. People wanted more and they turned to RADIO. If you could capture the signal, short wave radio by the CMQ station in Cuba is what people who had a passion for it tuned in to. Or they would tune into local stations who would broadcast "live" out of hotel ballrooms or cabarets, both in NYC and in Puerto Rico. For "Salsa" to be 'world-wide' there has to be activity taking place everywhere and simultaneously so. The only reason a dance instructor or performer from NYC is invited/booked to perform or conduct a workshop at an event in Europe, Asia, etc., is because there is already something happening over there. And the booking/invitation of this outsider from their home base is simply they furthering the present demand and encouraging local audiences to maintain interest in "Salsa." The U.S. doesn't have a thriving industry with local U.S. based "Salsa" artists (Musicians/Pro-dancers) without the rest of the planet facilitating opportunity for that industry to be dynamic. Today, it is the regions outside of the USA that are the life blood of many of the veteran band leaders based in the both the U.S. and in the Caribbean.

    In the very same way that "Salsa" is touted as this multi-contributed musical genre, the historic reality is that it is multiple factors of events taking place both in the USA and outside the USA that fueled the market for it. If the USA, Mexico, Cuba and Puerto Rico, all had the "Salsa" cylinders going simultaneously, and on a par with Colombia, Venezuela, Peru and now the Dominican Republic (who have just recently within the last few years taken to embracing what we here in the USA refer to as "Salsa Romantica,") we would be seeing an entirely different industry. It would be on a whole other level of visibility. Like it used to be before most of us were born (Except maybe Terence... ;-) )
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  6. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Me ?.. but I'm only 29..:rolleyes:
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  7. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    Your last three post are a really excellent description of what I also conceive as salsa reality! Thanks!
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  8. Marcos

    Marcos Son Montuno

    Actually I am purposefully throwing out a general vice specific statement when I wrote that. I challenge you to read some books and watch some documentaries regarding the history of salsa. You'll find the US brand to be a long standing, highly influential brand. The only place I concede to be more influential is Cuba, which is where the basic forms and rhythms of son, guaracha, guajira, and cha-cha-cha all developed.

    I don't know how to quote from multiple posts, so please forgive my ignorance, Live2dance also said the below:
    1) There is a reason why a leader is called a leader! Like a manager it is their responsibility to get things right, from the position on the floor to the leading of the sequence of moves. Dancewise I used to think like you when things were going wrong. Now I realise that in a great number of occassions the inability of the lady to perform a move or action maybe because am preventing her to do so (wrong hold, slight overturn, etc). So before I start looking at my dance partner I look at what am doing first!

    You are confusing responsibility with accountability.

    It is a leader's responsibility to create an environment conducive for an activity and delineate to the team how that activity is going to be accomplished. The leader is also responsible for understanding the ability level of his/her crew and tasking them appropriately based on their ability. With social dancing there is no interview process a follower is expected to complete prior to moving to the dance floor, thereby moving the responsibility for understanding ability level unto the first dance with a particular partner (and I don't issue a breathalyzer test prior to dance either). For a regular in a particular city over ten years, that person will develop a strong understanding of the dancers in the scene. That's not me, I travel the world dancing with over 1,000 women over four continents and many islands.

    Similarly a follower is supposed to be open to the ideas of the leader and carry them out as best as they can. A follower who opposes the leader can sabotage and destroy that activity and take down the whole enterprise. In cases of sabotage, the leader is not responsible for the result, even if they are accountable for said result.

    In salsa dancing, both leader and follower are accountable for the end result together, each responsible for carrying out specific duties. That's why when X guy dances with Y girl it's so amazing that a whole bunch of people can only help but stare; when afterwards X guy dances with another girl and another guy takes out Y girl nobody stares at either couple. And the reason is that the other guy and girl are not able to match the communication and skill they have together and are unable to take responsibility for leading @ turn or following # combination.
  9. Marcos

    Marcos Son Montuno

    Nobody here claimed US was the sole contributor to salsa, or even the most important, but some of us think it's role has been very important in the music's history.

    I said that the US had a more important role than many countries in Latin America. And that on that basis, a woman's national origin from a country in Latinamerica did not entitle her special consideration on the dance floor, nor was it a good enough reason to assume if there was a problem dancing that it was the lead's fault. That made the Latina lovers lose it. They further lost it when I claimed the US Salsa output constitutes part of the country's cultural heritage, and that Americans should own it as such. If Motown is part of US Cultural heritage, Fania is too.

    Some Latinas just suck at dancing, I don't know why it's hard for some people to just accept that.
  10. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    On your first paragraph, your initial post appeared much stronger. But am ok with your current point.

    On the second, I will use a different example linking the two issues (heritage and followers). Look at ChaCha. The British took it and included it in their Ballroom latin dances and they dance this dance all over the country. There are probably more people in the UK dancing Cha than they are in Cuba (and sometimes to authentic music). Does it make Cha or even Rumba or Samba or Jive or Paso a cultural heritage of the UK? No! But Ballroom dancing and standardisation and love for dancing, is!

    Now link to the followers. If a UK BR Cha champion meets a latina that has been listening and dancing with her family and friends for her whole life should he expect that she will dance the way he does or should he expect and accept that he is going to get a different experience than dancing with a BR follower? And does that give him the right to tell the latina who knows nothing about fwd bwd break or fan position or or ... that she is a bad dancer or she does not dance cha?

    You tell me?
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  11. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    On the first, @Richie Blondet gave a very extensive answer and I have nothing to add.

    On the second, ask experienced dancers and they will tell you that they know the lady's capabilities from the first 5 seconds of the dance. Some have already an understanding by watching the lady dance previously (I mean if you go and pick a girl off the bar and take her to the dance floor then what do you expect). Regularity-wise I am similar to you so I usually sit a dance or two out and have a look at the level on the floor. Then I adjust my expectations. Interview, you may say that...like screening CVs! :)

    On the last, what you are confusing here is social and performance dancing. See my post above. I don't wish to repeat things.
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  12. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    I didn't stress you did. I was very specific in responding to what you wrote. Which was the notion that people all over the world are hip to "Salsa" on account of the activity/events/history/timeline as it relates to the USA. I'm disagreeing with that notion because it's only PARTIALLY accurate. As I already explained, "Salsa" being a global phenomenon is due to its longevity of activity taking place on a global level. An orchestra like the Fania All-Stars were able to tour internationally in Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, North America and the Caribbean, because those "routes" had already been established decades earlier. Start thinking Afro-Cuban music and eliminate terms like "Salsa," "Mambo," "Boogaloo," or "Rhumba," and phase out regional ideas as well (Cuba, New York, Puerto Rico, Mexico, etc.) it helps to see the history of the music squarely on the music's trajectory itself and not as individual or distinct phenomenons taking place at certain times and at certain places. "Salsa" is a term that is attached to a music that was already taking place conceptually, albeit interpreted by a new generation with new local ideas and a veteran contingent that maintained or maintains the tradition as they recognize it to be best exemplified as.

    You didn't specify why with any examples to illustrate. The reason the U.S. was integral was because the recording industry was here. Which brought many musical artists from Latin America to make their way to where the work could be found. Just as any U.S. based actor or actress is going to naturally consider making their way to Hollywood, CA. (Los Angeles, CA.) if their pursuit is to be in film or television. That phenomenon also coincided with the reality of Latin America as it relates to "race." The African Diaspora in Cuba and elsewhere in the Spanish speaking Americas, are responsible for the innovations and simultaneously co-developed their culture's popular music. All these countries have their own "Jim Crow" culture within their societies. While the U.S. was no different, NYC had two things in its favor. The recording industry was based in NYC. And there was a district in NYC that the public identified as a Black metropolis. Harlem. An area where "Jim Crow" was no longer a factor by 1935, upon the manifestation of what scholars regard as the first "modern" race riot in the U.S. After that, nobody imposed discriminatory practices in the district. It was a welcome environment for a Black Latino. Thus, why so much talent made its way to NYC and were firmly established as leading artists or contenders by 1940. Economics and Race is why the U.S. played an important role in the history of Cuban Popular Music.

    But you have no basis. Just because Fania is touted as the Latin Music equivalent to Motown, that doesn't mean its true. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. That's just promotional rhetoric. But its empty. Like calling Tito Rodriguez the Frank Sinatra of Latin Music. It's a comparison. Some characteristics are similar. But so too are scores of other artists. And the fact is, Sinatra and Rodriguez are two different kinds of artists. Reared in two different kinds of music. Having two different kinds of cultural sensibilities. Fania records is the TICO label 2.0. The same shady business practices. Motown had an artist development department. They nurtured artists. Helped them to polish and develop their act, showmanship, musical range, etc. Fania had no such devotion. You were either already good, or you were deemed "bad" and not worth any investment.

    Secondly, people lost it or challenged your notion because you made a sweeping allegation with little more than your personal opinion. That the USA had a more important role than many countries in Latin America. So because of that statement, it affirms that we shouldn't assume it was the follower, who is a VISITOR and outsider to the local scene, is who just couldn't "hang" with the female dancer they chose to express themselves with. Neither of us were there to actually see with our own eyes what went down. It is on that basis, that one should avoid making any sweeping generalizations, the way you did, by claiming that *most* Latinas in Latin America are not "trained." By subscribing to this notion, you are consenting to the falsehood that the workshops you've taken are the highest standard to express oneself to "Salsa." Nope. It only works if your partner has a similar background in what you've absorbed from instruction. If not, that doesn't exclude anyone from not being worthy enough to dance with you. A dancer adapts. If you can't adapt to any sort of skill level as a follow, how "Trained" can one truly be? That's just my opinion and until there are more absolutes available to dissect, you and I will be speculating. But one thing is sure, whether there is a "Salsa" in the USA or not, it should be well understood that cultural expression comes with experience and not National identity. So there isn't any need to draw conclusions based on how well Fania did or how recognized "Salsa" is in the U.S. Salsa doesn't have to constitute part of the U.S.'s cultural heritage for "not everyone who is Latinx can dance' to be true.

    Okay. Let's also note that many who have taken instruction still have no rhythmical instincts, are able to exhibit any natural movement without telegraphing, and dance the exact...same...way, no matter what song comes on, or its tempo. And that's on the social dancing level. This is not a criticism of instruction by to those who become complacent by assuming dance instruction by a dance instructor is all it takes to be a quality dancer. Start listening to this music in the same manner one watches their favorite television show. I guarantee one will benefit as much as not and will *show* on the dance floor.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
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  13. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    How ironic! So am I! (For the 3rd year in a row)...
  14. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

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  15. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    Sorry. That should read: "...are unable to exhibit any natural movement without telegraphing."
  16. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    Other parts are condoned ? :p
  17. Marcos

    Marcos Son Montuno

    Take a look at the name of the thread. It's specific to Latinas who are untrained. Is there a possibility the initial poster was a moron and the Latina actually took 10 years of dance, sure. But I was kind enough to agree with the premise of the thread, as it is a real possibility, one that I've encountered through my years of dancing, which I empirically know 100 percent true at very least of my sisters and some other friends who I knew outside of dancing and I went dancing with. If you are going to disagree with the possibility of the premise of the thread, I guess you'll somehow have to prove you know my sisters better than me without meeting them. Or if you won't argue that you'll also have to prove the initial poster wasn't dancing with one of my sisters, good luck with that.

    Last dance conversation I had with one of my sisters where I was telling her some technique issues she was having she confessed that I had told her the same thing before, which considering how long I hadn't danced with her, it means she hadn't improved in over 10 years.

    And all the marquesina parties that we had where she was dancing all the time growing up in Latin America did absolutely nothing for her getting any skill in salsa. In that same Latin America we had salsa dance instructors, and I'm absolutely certain that she would be a better dancer if she had taken instruction as I did, without ever having to leave Latin America. I know it's hard to believe, but take my word for it that in Latin America people make a living teaching others to dance Latin American dances.

    BTW, some of the people that take dance lessons and hit a plateau from which they never improve are Latinos too.
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  18. Marcos

    Marcos Son Montuno

    You make it seem as if the mere fact the champion provides advice makes him a jerk. He wouldn't be a jerk just for providing advice, he would be a jerk if he was a jerk about it.

    I tell you that most Latinas don't listen to Cha Cha Cha. And if said Latina was my real life Latina sister, I would encourage her to take the dance champion's advice more seriously than any I could provide.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  19. Marcos

    Marcos Son Montuno

    I re-read the original post. The poster said that upon asking these Latinas they would say a version of "I feel the groove", or "I grew up listening to it" as an explanation for how they danced. He also mentioned them taking a "Cumbia back step on 3", and that they seemed very confident about their way of dancing. He also mentioned this being more prevalent in Colombia (Unfortunately he hasn't been more active to verify whether it's a greater prevalence in Colombia VS all of them in Colombia, but from his post we know some Latinas had a similar manner of dancing in San Francisco as well). On that basis a number of other posters thought they were doing Cumbia to the Salsa songs, which is quite plausible. My advice to him at this point is to take a Cumbia lesson or two to determine whether this is indeed a case of Cumbia dancers at a Salsa night that are too embarrassed to admit it.

    There are two possible outcomes for him. They are Cumbia dancers and he takes up Cumbia, and the world is better as he woes everyone with his amazing Cumbia steps to the latest Isaac Delgado hit song. I don't consider myself a Cumbia dancer, but I've seen it enough that in some situations when a girl was doing Cumbia like steps I mimicked what I saw of the Cumbia dancers, and effectively it was dancing Cumbia to Salsa.

    I don't think this is the case for all or even most of these girls though. Strong upper body and arm movements that conflict with turns is a following problem in almost every form of Ball Room or Tropical dances (my sister has that issue, not the odd step issue). As a leader answers like "I feel the groove" are useless for helping anyone better sync. I don't police my sister to know what she tells guys who she dances with as to how she learned to dance, whether she fakes confidence in dances she barely does, but if I knew she was I would explain to her why she shouldn't.

    My claim that most Latinas in Latin America are not trained stands. My basis, I am Latino, born and raised in Latinamerica. And interestingly, my dance background has been general enough to work in USA, Puerto Rico, Honduras, Japan, Thailand, Dubai, Spain, Singapore, and Australia. I dance with beginners all the time, and with Latinas that have never taken a lesson at every family wedding.
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  20. Richie Blondet

    Richie Blondet Shine Officer

    The bottom line is you weren't there. You don't know what he saw. You're taking his word for it based on the assumption you've made about 'host's women in Latin America not being trained. Let me clarify my position. My argument is that what you define as trained isn't all its cracked up to be. A guy claiming to have a total understanding of a dance attendees help with untrained dancers is a red flag anywhere. If the answer is Cumbia dancing lessons because he realized in the middle of their dance his partner did SYlvia back step on the 3, then that person is not a trained dancer. Memorizing armsmovements, hand positions, and steps going in a certain direction does not a naturally instinctive dancer make.

    The latter is more than enough. Osmosis...

    They don't share your learning experience. That's all it is. If that is even the case. Because, again, you weren't there to see what went down and, for the record, most Latinos and non-Latinos anywhere do not engage in or have received formal instruction. But dancing in a social context to our music takes place regardless. Many times, those same dancers outshine with their natural expression than the "trained."

    My basis is common sense, and being born and raised in the U.S.A. who identifies as Latino. I also know a smidgen of how this music works and most instruction and instructors are forcing a square peg into a circle. Which is why I'm skeptical of anyone who plays the I'm trained card...

    Are you a professional dancer?
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