contrabody motion

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by dantoddd, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    Well, if you ask is there anything kizomba can offer more than dancing in this clip (like body movement being "better"), the answer is probably no.
    In the context of this thread, body movement in kizomba is different, it's more in the hips (although you can see various versions of how it is done in both various kizomba/semba/tarraxinha styles and various salsa/casino/son/whatever styles) and way of stepping, changing direction etc is different. Interpretation of the rhythm is different ... There are of course similarities, there is some african background of both dances etc, but different place, different time, different music ... And there is some close hold here, which is also a kind of different ...

    So I think that the statement all kizomba is salsa but not all salsa is kizomba isn't really applicable :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
    #41
  2. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    But is there something in kizombas couple body movement we can steal? I try to understand what you wrote earlier in the thread.

    I dont know k* well, but there are some funky moves.
     
  3. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    Yeah, what I see that everything is in salsa already or can be stolen. Question is what is that you find tasty in k* and don't get in salsa?
     
  4. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    Sorry @dantoddd for hijacking the thread. The answer to your question is, it's probably too early to learn it; people exaggerate when they teach and rarely dance like that; do a lot of solo dancing then you'll be able to do all kinds of amazing moves in couple dancing too. Teachers often don't know what they talk about and don't dance what they teach. But the possibilities are huge. Dance with best dancers you can. Then you'll literally feel it and know whom to befriend. :)
     
    granrey likes this.
  5. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    Yeah, I though you mean that, so I tried answering that first
    It's the same as if you ask what I find tasty in a good coffee and don't find in good tea or wine or orange juice or whatever
    Or what I find tasty in good BR standard and don't find in good salsa or WCS or zouk or kizomba or bachata
    You can reorder both questions in any order you like and answer is pretty much the same
    Try rephrasing the question ;)
     
  6. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    Salsa is not like coffee, it's like pizza. It has crispy crust and cheese and all kind of goodies.
    Kizomba is like cheese fries. Cheese floats all over. It embraces the dish, sticks to it, has really tight connection.

    The question is - is there some particular molten cheese that might be also good on the pizza? :)

    Everything that swing has, we can has in salsa. Swing is the mother of salsa dance. And by now I'm confident that salsa can integrate everything from zouk as well. Actually just integrating the integration principle would be enough. :)
     
  7. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    Well, not all pizzas and cheese fries are the same ...

    Yes, you can dance swing or kizomba on salsa music and call it salsa. Fine by me

    Forgot to ask previously ... what's the point of those "back kicks" done by the girl several times (pos 0:44, 1:02) ? Seems to be popular in my venue as well ... I tend to avoid dancing with those or near them for some reason ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  8. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    And to think, everything in salsa was stolen :rolleyes:
     
  9. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    Hmm.. you don't hear it? It's in the horns.
     
    LarsM likes this.
  10. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    kkkkkkk ... it looks like I'll have to buy better speakers
    Other thing ... it looks like the guy never attended Oliver's body movement classes, looks considerably different ...
     
    Smejmoon likes this.
  11. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    :D
     
  12. Chris_Yannick

    Chris_Yannick Rhythm Deputy


    Since you are referring to my video, I should point out that in the beginning, it is very difficult to move your body while in partnerwork and not have it interfere with your lead. Imagine telling your students to roll their shoulders, place them above same foot and move your hips while still maintaining good frame, light but clear connection, weight distribution and plenty of other things a leader or follower must think about while in partner connection.

    It is much easier showing body movement independent of partner work, which is why videos like Oliver's exists. They are a godsend for people like me who seek to achieve more than what i can get in classes.

    Once you get more familiar with the movement and ingrain it into muscle memory, you start to incorporate it while in partner hold.

    The movenent shouldn't die, but it shouldn't be too overt either. Too much moving while in partnerwork can affect your leading or following in a detrimental way. Even exceptional movers like Maykel Fonts... i don't believe should be modelled after as too much moving around will lead to confusion and getting signals crossed.
     
  13. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    Yeah, but this concept of rolling shoulders is tricky. It belongs to rumba which is danced solo. Salsa developed from Son, mambo etc which are danced in a couple where different rules apply due to hold and various rumba elements and other shines are incompatible. Spins are also incompatible. So watching salseros dancing, including Oliver, Frankie and others, you see they are still using their bodies, but shoulders are de-facto stationary when in hold. However, people learn these isolations where big point is actually on the upper part of the core and shoulders. So when this part gets mostly blocked when changing from dancing solo to dancing in a hold, their whole body movement dies, not just shoulders. Obviously some transformations should happen here and that's the part I don't see explained on the classes
     
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  14. LarsM

    LarsM Tumbao

    Hmm...this is a good point @vit! I tried to see if Eddie Jr's body movement was still "alive" in partner work in the last vid posted in the social vids thread, and lo and behold: it wasn't as far as I could see. Except in the parts where he obviously goes for it, but not so much otherwise imo. In general I think the follows keep their body movement better when dancing in couples though!

    For referance, the vid:


    If one of the better social dancers in the world can't do it, where does that leave the rest of us mere mortals?
     
  15. Jag75

    Jag75 Shine Officer

    Putting some disagreements aside - thanks for the compliment, much appreciated :)
     
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  16. Jag75

    Jag75 Shine Officer

    To be honest - I like these types of discussions. You've got me thinking more about it - I'm going to dig a little deeper into the subject :)
     
    Live2dance likes this.
  17. Jag75

    Jag75 Shine Officer

    The drill is used so that you improve your body mechanics and step of action through the dance. It's difficult if not impossible to "see" during partnerwork, but that "hidden quality" that people ask about that makes a dancer look good is only possible when you've performed the CM drill thousands of times. If you compare him with someone who's been dancing as long, with the same library of patterns, without having drilled CM, that person simply won't look as good and will appear as of something is missing in their dance.
     
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  18. granrey

    granrey Son

    So much truth in one post.
     
  19. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    @vit I think that you nicely explained what @terence has been repeating again and again, that frame is an important element of the dance especially for the leader. A leader builds a frame within which the follow can dance but also make use of. If the frame is moving all around or is not stable then the follow has to be a super fast and responsive dancer or (even with super follows) will not be able to follow.

    But the upper body of the lead does move even on hold and that is CM. If I move my upper body to the left side the follow should follow. Same for the right side. As we move in synchronicity then lead and follow move from left to right CM together. If our frames and the connection is good then we could start playing more with upper body movements (like for example & beats). But the connection must be good and the music appropriate otherwise it will not feel ok.
     
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  20. LarsM

    LarsM Tumbao

    I'm not saying good body mechanics/CM is not important - far from it, I believe it's way more important than most dancers give it credit for. But point taken, it's not always as visible in partner work.
     

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