Basic step weight transfer

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by sindi, Apr 8, 2011.

  1. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    Em ... did I really say that? Everything is possible of course or maybe it was in some different context, but I'm definitively not the one who claims that kizomba is african tango. There are some similarities though - hold is similar to one of several ways how to hold the partner in arg. tango and two moves - man and woman saida, are something that is called open box in some other dances (in an intro tango class I attended several month ago, teacher gave us that as exercise, among other things, and the move similar to man said is called salida in tango, which means exit). But these things we can find in other genres as well

    Way of moving and stepping in tango is considerably different than in kizomba, it doesn't include body movement, steps are much longer and have specific tango styling (although, as I found out in discussions in tango section of ballroom forums, there are various ways and preferences how to walk in tango). Tango steps don't have an "earthy" look like dances that developed from african dances, like kizomba and various afro-cuban dances. Among dances familiar to me, kizomba steps and body movement are actually closest to ballroom samba (if stripped off all unnecessary ballroom styling stuff), which also developed on african heritage through slave trade with Brazil (how it actually happened is unclear to me, as today, it looks like there are no traces of origins of ballroom samba in Brazil - various versions of Brazilian samba are totally different)
     
  2. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    For some reason I actually liked the clip, but it would be certainly better without his flamenco style (or whatever) parts.
    I actually don't see any influence of ballet in his dancing, but it looks like he is experimenting a lot with body movement,
    trying to sell some new stuff to the people. Problem is - his students are probably not that good as him,
    so results are quite unpredictable I think. Experimenting like this should be a phase "break the rules", after the phase "master the rules". But problem is - most people think they master it before even scratching the surface ....
     
  3. calichris10

    calichris10 Sabor Ambassador

    Totally has ballet influence. He tries Entrechants, extensions, attitude among others. So he most definitely uses ballet..no doubt.
     
  4. lidiap

    lidiap Descarga

    He trained at Alvin Ailey, and yes, you can see the ballet influence.
     
  5. lidiap

    lidiap Descarga

    This is the Franklin I like:
    Franklin Diaz and Paulina Turska performance at 365 Bistro:
     
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  6. calichris10

    calichris10 Sabor Ambassador

    He took class there..was not part of the company. Anyone can take class at Alvin Ailey! I have and they are awesome!
     
  7. lidiap

    lidiap Descarga

    Of course he wasn't part of the company, I didn't say that. Just that he trained there, and he's done it long enough (I believe he still does) that the influence shows in some of his dancing.
     
  8. calichris10

    calichris10 Sabor Ambassador

    Yeah, didn't say you did. I was just pointing out that anyone can take class there.
    Regardless, I am not a fan of the ballet/flamenco shtick he uses. But that is just my view..I know there are many people who love it.
     
  9. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    Agree that he is using some elements that are not part of afro-cuban dancing and that could come from ballet or some other genre, just wanted to say that it doesn't look like ballet took big part of his dance education, he still looks like a salsa dancer with some other things added and not like a ballet dancer that learned salsa and afro-cuban afterwards.
    Alien is also using some similar moves, just perhaps better integrated in her dancing, partially also because she is a woman where some additional styling is wellcome. Interestingly, on MSF party, Mouaze also went crazy with some really good followers and started doing these things and dancing big, while with "ordinary" followers his dancing was "strictly salsa" and much more compact. It was interesting for me to watch how different followers change the way he is dancing and his response overall including the smile on his face
     
  10. kbitten

    kbitten Clave Commander

    FD is awsome but I have to agree I dont like his 'leg styling' and the flamenco things he throws in when he is dancing..but I tend to forgot all the things I dont like about him when you look at his face and see how he enjoys the music he is dancing to. :)


    I dont know if this partnership is going anywhere but I like him with Griselle.


    here's a class where he talks about how he teaches.Interesting...
     
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  11. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao


    He teaches rib cage action, which is precisely what is taught in BR Latin .
     
  12. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    Do you have any comment on that - I mean - what is preferable body action in salsa, compared to BR latin - similarities and differences (putting aside legs, which strengthen more in BR)

    His demo is slightly different than Frankie Martinez demo about the same / similar thing regarding cuban movement. Frankie Martinez did more with his rib cage and less with hips, so the point of his core which doesn't move sideways was say 5-10 cm lower than in demo by Franklin. He (FM) demonstrated great flexibility of upper part of the spine, while Franklin is more flexing lower parts of the spine, so his legs and knees also go more sideways

    However, Frankie also demonstrated various african and afrocuban movents, where his body action was considerably different, more oriented to the hips (but still quite different than this demo by Franklin) and "propagating" the power of weight transfer through the body from the ground upwards. Kizomba instructor Kwenda Lima also demonstrated similar african body movements. So these things were obviously different than cuban movement in both salsa and BR, together with the music
     
  13. calichris10

    calichris10 Sabor Ambassador

    agree...I saw a recent social vid(think he was dancing with his girlfriend) where he was dancing straight(no shtick) and it was great! Was really enjoying himself and his partner.
     
  14. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Preferable is somewhat the key word,

    As you know, there are 2 styles involved here ( indigenous apart ) Rib cage and lateral . Both are used at different points in dance construction dependant upon stepping direction. Side actions need a lateral action ( the overt actions thru the hips which is common ) and, normal progressive fwd actions for rib cage. Both fit the salsa style well.

    The actions in Cuban Rumba, Guaguanco for e.g. , have always been ( in my opinion ) slightly over done, but to consider the context in which they were being done, i.e. as a "lure " and, as a demo of masculinity . And, this type of action , seems to becoming somewhat pervasive, in social styles of salsa.

    IF one studies.old movie clips for e.g. of the social dance scenes, it becomes evident that the hip actions are far more subtle. Less was ( and is ) more

    All the solo clips of Cuban rumbas, are to me, are kinda like a show performance ,and ( like most demos ) tend to be somewhat over the proverbial top, and that's part of the point of the performance .

    Question.. in all you dance experiences, socially, how many dancers have you seen, or danced with, that , use an overt continuous hip action .

    IME, in all the latin clubs I frequented over the years, it would be difficult to re-call one dancer or partner, , that danced with the continuos overt hip actions , and that's no to say there were non, I just don't remember them.

    Take the average teacher/student ANYwhere, and I would venture to guess you will not come across more than a handful, who teach the pure indigenous hip style actions........... Pragmatism rules
     
    vit likes this.
  15. vit

    vit Clave Commander

    As about those few latinos in my venue, they all have natural body motion and they are not exaggerating it. They all dance some cuban salsa (some more simplistic, some a bit more complex), some merengue and bachata and don't add elements from cuban rumba in their dancing (at least I don't remember I've seen them). It's us non-latinos that tend to exaggerate because most of us don't have it naturally

    As about body movement in general (including him movement etc), I would say it's like a music. There are various genres and there is wide range from awful music to excellent music. However, playing it louder don't improve it, usually it's just the opposite - it's harder to make music loud and maintain its quality

    I agree with your point that stepping/moving direction influences body movement - didn't think much about it that way (nor anybody explained that to me), but it really makes sense. However, it's what I don't see in clip by Franklin Diaz - he is making big lateral hip movement when stepping fwd/bwd without obvious reason or explanation, just as big as when he is doing side steps etc
     
  16. Offbeat

    Offbeat El Sabroso de Conguero

    Care to explain what you meant by 'natural' body movement. What I meant is the use of adjective 'natural'. It would suggest that is the normal way to move the body and exaggeration is unnatural or abnormal.

    The exaggeration you are referring to reminds of watching many beginners in a class deliberately moving their hips (not due to weight transfer or latin motion), because they are trying to imitate the instructor or other dancers they have seen.
     
  17. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura El Sabroso de Conguero

    'Exaggerated' and 'natural' are not necessarily on the same spectrum. The opposite of 'exaggerated' (which means 'big') is 'small' and 'subtle', not 'natural'. A good dancer can exaggerate their natural body movement and it will still look 'natural'. In fact, Cuban motion can be defined as exactly that, letting the floor connection drive a stronger reaction in the body's natural movement (or, 'faking' that strong reaction so well that the average observer cannot tell it is 'fake').

    Take the (very nice :)) Cuban dancers in the video below as an example. When they walk normally, the women certainly don't have those big hip movement they have in the video. But, even though it is 'exaggerated', it still looks natural.

     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
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  18. kbitten

    kbitten Clave Commander

    I dont like ' cuban hips' ! For me they are disconnected with the floor , like those from the girls in the video Sabs chose! But its a style preference of course! I still see them ' natural' cause that's the way I see cubans doing them! Au contraire, ballroom hips specially in chacha and samba look completely fake to my eyes!

    About FD video we have to ask someone who was in the class! Sometimes just seeing the final dont do justice to the instructions he may has given! But yeah, i dont like those side knees!
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
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  19. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura El Sabroso de Conguero

    I started that discussion after I went to his class. ;) The video was posted after we began discussing what he said in the class.
     
  20. Sabrosura

    Sabrosura El Sabroso de Conguero

    How about Yanet? Disconnected from the floor as well?

     
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