Leaders - How do you lead cross body?

olamalam

olamalam

Son Montuno
Hi Guys,

Last weekend Milton Cobo showed me completely different way of leading cross body. On the second count he is doing half 360. The reason is to keep the lady on the spot while doing cross body. This way of doing cross body also effects all cross body turns. While dancing, this makes the follower travel less so that she won't get tired too much. For instance she can follow an outside turn on the spot while the leader is travelling around her. And this is safer for the lady as well. Since the leader will be travelling instead of the follower, she wont hit or get hit by other couples.
Actually I loved this way of leading cross body but it's very hard to change this move after doing the old version billions of time.

(My old version is to open the line, step back with right on the second count (while dancing on2) and lead her forward. And then get back to my line.)

Anthony from addicted2salsa is teaching a similar version of xbody to keep lady on the spot. He is stepping right on the second count (instead of back) so lady travels less.

Is there anyone who leads and prefers Milton's or Anthony's xbody?
 
If i recall correctly from supermario (super moves 1 DVD) he discourages stepping back/right as he believes you lose some of the connection in doing so, I know you have attended his classes in the past so maybe you could question him on this?

If im honest worrying about a follow getting tired from doing a slightly lengthier cross body is the least of my concerns when dancing :) I understand where you are coming from in terms of using less dance floor space however.

I guess my question for you is, when you were doing it in Miltons lesson, was the momentum of the follow different and/or lessened.
 
I often do a crossbody (on1) by finishing a previous move already in the (3 position - ie stepped off the line) on 1 I cross behind with left, step in place on right and then return to normal crossbody stance on 3, on 5 i lead whilst i cross behind with my right then more or less in place with left but angling the foot to now face the follow then step with right to face fully as a normal crossbody would end.
 
When I started dancing salsa, I quickly became familiar with the "usual" way of doing cross body. With some previous knowledge of competitive B/room, I offered the lady a good frame, clear lead and wheeee .... she went from one side to another.

It usually worked very well with experienced ladies and they enjoyed, although I was familiar only with a few basic moves at that time ... However, part of ladies just didn't want to move the way I wanted them to move. Forcing them to move usually didn't work either - more you pull them, less they move on their own, so result is even worse (it's the same in B/room) ... There can be different reasons - lady is not experienced dancer, a bit over-weighted, older, already tired, not in the mood or ... she just doesn't feel she has to move that much on the particular piece of music or in the limited space on the dance floor etc ...

So, I think that now, my way of dancing cross body (and other similar moves) can be anywhere between "usual" and "Milton's" method. If the lady is full of energy, the music is full of energy, there is enough place on the floor ... I'll dance it first way. If it's romantic music or lady doesn't move much, I'll dance it the second way, moving her less and partially compensating with me moving more if needed ... On the average music and average lady, it will be somewhere in between ...

So in my opinion, general rule here is that - there is no general rule or preferred method ... it depends on your partner, music, available space etc
 
Well, I don't have any comment about the actual move (I didn't try it yet - I like the idea though).

But here are the facts : in congress there will often be a dozen women lining up to dance with Milton, so I say he's doing something right ! I say go for it, practice it until you master it, and then you can decide which one to do when, but you really should not discard it before you know about it first hand

In this video he gives some info about either the leader going back, or him pushing the follower out :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOEyU7t-gks
Is this kind of thing what you are talking about ?

Cheers
 
tresto said:
Well, I don't have any comment about the actual move (I didn't try it yet - I like the idea though).

But here are the facts : in congress there will often be a dozen women lining up to dance with Milton, so I say he's doing something right ! I say go for it, practice it until you master it, and then you can decide which one to do when, but you really should not discard it before you know about it first hand

In this video he gives some info about either the leader going back, or him pushing the follower out :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOEyU7t-gks
Is this kind of thing what you are talking about ?

Cheers
Click to expand...

Thank you for the link, saved my time to upload mine. It starts at 3:50, he explains his way of leading xbody and xbody turn. Actually he explained much more detailly last weekend but this one also gives an idea.
 
olamalam said:
Thank you for the link, saved my time to upload mine. It starts at 3:50, he explains his way of leading xbody and xbody turn. Actually he explained much more detailly last weekend but this one also gives an idea.
Click to expand...

OH, ok! That's cool! So am I getting this right? On three you end up side by with the follow, then on the second half lead her around to face you in the same spot?
 
Crow said:
Thanks! Is this what you mean, Olamalam? This just seems like a regular CBL to me.
Click to expand...

In Anthony's version it's not enough to keep lady on the spot but at least she is travelling sligthly less. He is stepping to side on5 instead of back.
 
TwoLeftFeet said:
If i recall correctly from supermario (super moves 1 DVD) he discourages stepping back/right as he believes you lose some of the connection in doing so, I know you have attended his classes in the past so maybe you could question him on this?

If im honest worrying about a follow getting tired from doing a slightly lengthier cross body is the least of my concerns when dancing :) I understand where you are coming from in terms of using less dance floor space however.

I guess my question for you is, when you were doing it in Miltons lesson, was the momentum of the follow different and/or lessened.
Click to expand...

While dancing on1, Mario steps on the spot on5. But even if he is huge (with his own words :) ), he can dance by using minimum amount of space by keeping his steps and girls steps as small as possible. His main focus is social dancing anyway, especially social dancing in bar salsa!!!
 
Crow said:
OH, ok! That's cool! So am I getting this right? On three you end up side by with the follow, then on the second half lead her around to face you in the same spot?
Click to expand...

I watched my video once more, (with on2 timing) he is hooking behind on1 with left foot (this gives a momentum to lady), and faces the lady on2 already. It's kind a half 360 or 180 :)

If i can find time, I'll post this to youtube. (he didnt tell us not to do :) )
 
olamalam said:
Thank you for the link, saved my time to upload mine. It starts at 3:50, he explains his way of leading xbody and xbody turn. Actually he explained much more detailly last weekend but this one also gives an idea.
Click to expand...
Well if you have a more detailed explanation on video it would be much appreciated.
 
vit said:
So, I think that now, my way of dancing cross body (and other similar moves) can be anywhere between "usual" and "Milton's" method. If the lady is full of energy, the music is full of energy, there is enough place on the floor ... I'll dance it first way. If it's romantic music or lady doesn't move much, I'll dance it the second way, moving her less and partially compensating with me moving more if needed ... On the average music and average lady, it will be somewhere in between ...

So in my opinion, general rule here is that - there is no general rule or preferred method ... it depends on your partner, music, available space etc
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. If you watch Milton social dancing, especially in slow songs and if he has enough space, he extends everything as much as possible.
(A long open break, his right hand is on his chest, eyes are half shot, head is sligthly bended to side. I love it!)
 
This lesson makes sense. However, when danced this way, it's hard to say that it is still the move called "Cross body", as it is actually almost the same as last part of the CBL 360 (or part of backspot turn, just turning to the left). So I presume it would be more correct to talk about replacing the Cross body with last bar of CBL 360, instead of claiming that this is some alternative method of CBL or so ... For dancers mastering CBL 360, there is actually nothing new here

Also, I wouldn't suggest replacing CBL with this variation entirely. They are both usable, depending on occasion. I don't like watching the dance where I can't see any of "basic figures", which are essence of that dance (and CBL is certainly such a figure in salsa). It unfortunately happens frequently in competitive ballroom ...
 
I do that all the time. Usually in a chain of moves, to maintain counterclockwise momentum of both of us. Rotation could be half, full or more. Actually it works both directions. You can make her walk around you, walk around yourself or both rotate around the same spot. Different feels.
 
Agree with Miltons teaching and demonstrations. He talks about how a basic CBL is. Explains how you swap positions continually, keeping it tight and controlled etc.

IMO this is a feature of all styles: NY, LA, Cuban etc.


On the video all these variations are just the same CBL for me, technique wise. To me CBL 360 is the same.

All that varies is the angle you open on 2nd and 3rd steps and how far you travel after you bring the lady across. If you travel more she has to travel less and vice versa.

That's part of the style differences. When I dance LA style I stay in the centre more and let her move more from the exchange of momentum. When I dance NY style I move a little more and only exchange positions.

Though can depend on the girl, the situation and the music, like Vit said earlier.
 
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