I love the music for salsa. I have been reading all the writing on here about salsa dura and timba and now I am confused. I love timba and all the bands that smeone said in the thread like Bamboleo and Charanga Habanera etc and they are my favourites. I thought that the word salsa was the word for all kinds of latin music but now I think timba is not salsa. I thought timba was a type of salsa. I do think Fania and things like Ruben Blades etc from the 1970s would be described definitely as salsa but if timba is not salsa then what are an example of a recent modern salsa band or song. Would it be La Excelencia maybe. I have always thought of them as being a different type of salsa but it is all salsa. I am very confused now.
Now confused
- Thread starter Ema
- Start date
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
I honestly don't think anyone can definitively state timba is or is not salsa. Personally I have my doubts and apparently some timba musicians dislike the term salsa too, but other timba musicians describe their music as salsa, so who is to say? Either it's a subgenre of salsa or a closely related genre.
Modern salsa examples? La Excelencia are one, Moncho Rivera, Andy Montanez, The Latin Giants Of Jazz (some might say they are mambo not salsa, I would say modern mambo is part of salsa), many more examples I can't think of right now . . .
Don't be confused just enjoy the variety Ema.
Modern salsa examples? La Excelencia are one, Moncho Rivera, Andy Montanez, The Latin Giants Of Jazz (some might say they are mambo not salsa, I would say modern mambo is part of salsa), many more examples I can't think of right now . . .
Don't be confused just enjoy the variety Ema.
There's a lot of argument about what is and isn't technically "salsa" and all sides have excellent points, but I suppose it may depend on where you are from. In my area most people use "salsa" as that catch-all term for Latin music - but if you live in Puerto Rico or Cuba or Dominicana than that could be taken as an insult (because of nationalistic pride I suppose).
So with people in my area I usually refer to the music I create as salsa but with people who are more familiar with the music I use the "correct" names, just so everybody can understand what I play.
Salsa has so many sub-genres like guaguancó, charanga, guaracha, cha-cha, timba, plena, bomba, and I suppose even bachata and merengue that you could drive yourself nuts trying to understand "why not just call it all salsa?"
But as far as those other posts, let me tell you that most of them started with me - because I wasn't 100% sure either. I'm a musician and wanted to explore the musical differences (like instrumentation, timing, etc) to see if any of them would be styles I could get into. It doesn't really mean I want to argue my position on if something is salsa, but more to find out how the different styles work and what they sound like.
So the bottom line is:
• if you're a musician it's helpful to know the differences because you can learn most (if not all) of them, have a great time playing, and be able to do whichever one people want to hear at the time. But...
• If you're more into the dance thing, just keep the timing in mind - because if you can't "salsa to it" than it probably isn't salsa (to a dancer lol). And if u ask me it's all so good - it's as flavorful and varied as the salsas we eat =D
So with people in my area I usually refer to the music I create as salsa but with people who are more familiar with the music I use the "correct" names, just so everybody can understand what I play.
Salsa has so many sub-genres like guaguancó, charanga, guaracha, cha-cha, timba, plena, bomba, and I suppose even bachata and merengue that you could drive yourself nuts trying to understand "why not just call it all salsa?"But as far as those other posts, let me tell you that most of them started with me - because I wasn't 100% sure either. I'm a musician and wanted to explore the musical differences (like instrumentation, timing, etc) to see if any of them would be styles I could get into. It doesn't really mean I want to argue my position on if something is salsa, but more to find out how the different styles work and what they sound like.
So the bottom line is:
• if you're a musician it's helpful to know the differences because you can learn most (if not all) of them, have a great time playing, and be able to do whichever one people want to hear at the time. But...
• If you're more into the dance thing, just keep the timing in mind - because if you can't "salsa to it" than it probably isn't salsa (to a dancer lol). And if u ask me it's all so good - it's as flavorful and varied as the salsas we eat =D
It is a pretty cool name. But at the same time so is bomba - I mean, it's Spanish for "bomb" and just as salsa carries with it expressions like spicy, hot, sabor, caliente etc so bomba could carry with it "da bomb", "explosive" etc... To be honest I don't think having so many names is necessarily a help to people unfamiliar with the music. To musicians, obviously, it's not only necessary but fun to learn the different styles that have fallen under the salsa category; but to people unfamiliar with terms like salsa dura, timba, etc. it's perfectly understandable why some would be confueed. I'm sure Ema is not the only one (I didn't know much a couple years ago either).
An example of this (where often I get confused because I don't listen to it) is rock. To me, it's rock - it's got electric guitars, bass and drum set. It's got lots of solos, it... well, rocks. But to a rock musician there are differences between hard and soft rock, heavy metal, "alternative" (whatever that is) and classic rock, not to mention Latin rock and other vague names like "pop". To me, it's all rock. I wouldn't know one kind from another. That's why I'm not real strict about what I call "salsa" around people who don't get the differences.
Don't worry, Ema... unless you're interested in learning all the stuff we want to know on here it's all more or less salsa. Forget names like guaguancó, charanga, son, etc... they're all just other styles from Latin America that have either influenced or become a part of salsa. If you're into learning more, you're in the right place - but if not, no big deal.
An example of this (where often I get confused because I don't listen to it) is rock. To me, it's rock - it's got electric guitars, bass and drum set. It's got lots of solos, it... well, rocks. But to a rock musician there are differences between hard and soft rock, heavy metal, "alternative" (whatever that is) and classic rock, not to mention Latin rock and other vague names like "pop". To me, it's all rock. I wouldn't know one kind from another. That's why I'm not real strict about what I call "salsa" around people who don't get the differences.
Don't worry, Ema... unless you're interested in learning all the stuff we want to know on here it's all more or less salsa. Forget names like guaguancó, charanga, son, etc... they're all just other styles from Latin America that have either influenced or become a part of salsa. If you're into learning more, you're in the right place - but if not, no big deal.
The designated names that are used, are primarily used to describe the " style " of the dance, and in some cases, its origin; most dancers dont give a rats patudie about names, styles etc.. alll they desire is good music ( to their ear )... those that want more info, come to sites like this( where we can confuse them even more !! )
You have that backwards.. "they " were here, long before the name " salsa " was in vogue.. and salsa, as a dance was influenced by Mambo...
sweavo
Changui
Don't worry, Ema... unless you're interested in learning all the stuff we want to know on here it's all more or less salsa. Forget names like guaguancó, charanga, son, etc... they're all just other styles from Latin America that have either influenced or become a part of salsa. If you're into learning more, you're in the right place - but if not, no big deal.
That's about right... but I wish albums would put the styles next to the track names, then nobody would need to be confused.
Right on! That would be nice (then it would be easier to play along if nothing else)
And yes, terence, I understand about the history, and was really just kinda generalizing about where these other names came from. Some have argued that "salsa is son" and others (like Tito Puento) say it's mambo, etc. but I wasn't about 2 lecture about that; it was more like a way of summarizing. (Also I liked that about the dance, and I have to say I agree - why would dancers care about stuff that really doesn't change the fact that it's good music?
And yes, terence, I understand about the history, and was really just kinda generalizing about where these other names came from. Some have argued that "salsa is son" and others (like Tito Puento) say it's mambo, etc. but I wasn't about 2 lecture about that; it was more like a way of summarizing. (Also I liked that about the dance, and I have to say I agree - why would dancers care about stuff that really doesn't change the fact that it's good music?
I know it as a dancer and I am not a musician. If I am dancing to timba music which is I love am I still dancing salsa?
. (Also I liked that about the dance, and I have to say I agree - why would dancers care about stuff that really doesn't change the fact that it's good music?
After all the academic positing, thats really the bottom line..
In all my many yrs, around the "greats" , NEVER did I hear anyone discuss in detail ( outside of a studio ) how, why, where or when to begin, and or dance.. they just danced..
I think that mambo is a bit like what you see on dancing with the stars like ballroom so I don't think I will dance like that as I learned cuban style salsa most. I do not know what a cuban mambo would look like if it is a dance or what a proper cuban mambo sounds like. I think of mambo and I think of something like tito puente and dancers that like crossbody style which looks a little bit formal too me but that is just what I see and can be wrong.
I also would be interested to hear what original mambo sounds like. I also thought of Tito Puento when I think of mambo (his quote, "salsa is what you eat, mambo is what you dance" etc) and also the "mambo bell" on the timbales and "mambo section" of an arrangement. Honestly if modern salsa is that different from Cuban mambo I'd like to hear some.
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Honestly if modern salsa is that different from Cuban mambo I'd like to hear some.
Will dig up some titles from my library for you ( 40/50s stuff )
I also would be interested to hear what original mambo sounds like. I also thought of Tito Puento when I think of mambo (his quote, "salsa is what you eat, mambo is what you dance" etc) and also the "mambo bell" on the timbales and "mambo section" of an arrangement. Honestly if modern salsa is that different from Cuban mambo I'd like to hear some.
heres a CD and a couple of songs from the past...
Song.... Noro Morales... " Maracaibo "
Song... Aldemaro Romero... " Mango Mangue "
C.D.. " Melodias del 40s " ... this has a good representation of Mambo.. Bolero.. Rumba.. and a Pachanga..
Thankyou Terence that is very interesting. I like these sorts and all sorts of music for listening but these do not sound right for my dancing. I do not know if that makes sense. They sound like to my ears like ballroom music and would feel funny for me to dance to I think. I love finding out about the history of the salsa dancing. It is very confusing though and interesting. I think sometimes now that if I like dancing to a timba track and cuban style then is it a different dance altogether than someone dancing to salsa and a crossbody style. One is called salsa and one is called cuban or timba maybe.
That could not be farther from the truth.. those are authentic Cuban rhythms from the 40s/ 50s ( what we danced mambo to ).. and, yes, they possibly do not suit your current style of dance .( did you listen to those selections ?)
And, you are confusing " style " with " music "...
Preferences to HOW you dance to different songs can be very subjective.. there are, of course, sub divisions of style, all emanating from Mambo.. as the musician said " ALL salsa is mambo .. but.. not ALL mambo is salsa "...